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Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29839		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Roger Mitchell [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
FCMRY #21 broke an axel today and will be down for a yet to be determined amount of time. The A end axel broke off just outside the left wheel between the wheel and the journal box. I managed to get the car back to the barn under it's own power by jacking up the A end of the car and placing a pushcar under it. We will now have to remove the truck from under the car and get 2 new axels made.
Roger Mitchell
Master Mechanic and Vice President
Fort Collins Municipal Railway
Author:  dinwitty [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
original axles? maybe faulty metalwork. Better check over the rest of the axles or you be back in the shops again.
Author:  Roger Mitchell [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
Twelve years ago we replaced the wheels on #21. At that time Harbert Castings of Denver, who did the press work, magnafluxed both axles. In the process of pressing the wheels they did bend one slightly. That one did not break yet. We do intend to replace both of them.
Roger Mitchell
Master Mechanic and Vice President
Fort Collins Municipal Railway
Author:  Ted Miles [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
Roger,
Since you now own a second Birney car; can you switch the wheel sets so you can get back in action?

Ted Miles
Author:  Andy Nold [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
Ted Miles wrote:
Roger,
Since you now own a second Birney car; can you switch the wheel sets so you can get back in action?

Ted Miles



I would wonder how compatible the wheelsets off of the Brill 78M are with the 79E. Not sure if the axles would interchange.
Author:  Roger Mitchell [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
A couple of little problems. First of all is that the wheels and axles of car #25 are also bad. We are in the process of trying to work out a deal with the D&S on those. Car #21 has streight cut gears and Westinghouse motors. Car #25 has herring bone gears and GE motors.
Roger Mitchell
Author:  wilkinsd [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
This raises an interesting question I've had for some time, but haven't been able to find an answer. I know the #25 spent some time in private ownership before finding its way east. Was it purchased from the original FCMRY with truck and motors intact? Are these later add-ons?

Herring bone pattern gears are allegedly quieter than standard straight cut gears, and also are said to give a longer serivce life. The PRT and later PTC used them extensively in their standard, non-PCC cars. I wonder what other systems used them extensively.
Author:  3rdavery [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
Quote:
Herring bone pattern gears are allegedly quieter than standard straight cut gears, and also are said to give a longer serivce life. The PRT and later PTC used them extensively in their standard, non-PCC cars. I wonder what other systems used them extensively.

The Third Avenue Railway in New York City used Herringbone gears on thier homebuilt lightweight cars in the mid 30's

Steve Loitsch
Quote:
Author:  artschwartz [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
#25 was originally a Richmond, Virginia car, bought second-hand by the FCMRY. This is the most likely explanation for the difference in motors and gears. The herringbone gears were most likely changed from straight cut gears by VR&P during its modernization program in the late 1920's.
Author:  Roger Mitchell [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
#25 was purchased used by the City of Fort Collins. It was built by Brill in Philadelphia. Our #21 was built by American in Saint Louis.
This Saturday morning we will start on the project to remove the truck from underneath #21 in preperation for repairs. We will replace both axles. The B end axle ( the one that didn't break) was bent the when we replaced the wheels in 1998. While we have it down there are several other items we will also deal with now instead of waiting until we have #25 ready for service.
Roger Mitchell
Master Mechanic
FCMRy
Author:  Ted Miles [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
Roger,

i am sorry that a simple swap is not possible. i thought that might be a way to salvage the rest of the 2010 season.

but it also shows that the"simple" Birney car design has more to it than most people think.

At the Western Railway Museum we have one complete car and three bodies all three of them have different trucks.

We found one of them in a Stockton boatyard being used for the chasis of a marine railroad. Another one come from a feed lot which the owner was using retired cable cars and the trucks were from the LA Railway with 42" wheel sets.

Ted Miles
Author:  Jim Vaitkunas [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
Roger Mitchell wrote:
#25 was purchased used by the City of Fort Collins. It was built by Brill in Philadelphia. Our #21 was built by American in Saint Louis.


Roger:

American Car Co. (ACC) became a subsidiary of Brill in 1902 although the company kept its name until 1931. Brill closed the St. Louis ex-ACC plant in 1932. The depression did the plant in. So you actually have two Brill Birney cars. In fact many of the Birneys "built" by Brill were manufactured at the St. Louis (ACC) plant. Brill preferred to build the larger cars at their main Philadelphia plant and at their Kuhlman plant in Cleveland.

So while you have two Brill-built Birneys, depending on the year each car was built their Brill 79 truck might have dissimilar components.

Our Fargo & Moorhead St Rwy ST Birney was an American Car Co product built in 1924. When built it had a Brill 79E truck. It was one of the last Birneys to be built new because the market for second-hand ST Birneys was glutted with cars from systems that bought them and they didn't work out (passengers hated them). Eastern Mass Street Railway and the United Electric Rys (Providence, RI) sold many of theirs to other systems. Many small-town systems bought them for a song to try to economize on their power bill and track maintenance.

Thanks!
Author:  artschwartz [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
In addition to the main plant in Philadelphia and American in St.Louis, Brill built Birney cars at the Wason subsidiary in Springfield, Mass., mainly for the New England market. To my knowledge, no Birneys were built at Kuhlman, and the other Brill subsidiaries, Stephenson and Danville, were closed with the conversion to steel car construction. All Brill Birney cars were quite similar, as compared to cars from Cincinnati, Osgood Bradley or St.Louis Car.
Author:  Sloan [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20100 ... roken-axle
Author:  wilkinsd [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fort Collins trolley breaks axel
I always forget about American being a major player in the streetcar market. The administration building to the American Car Co. plant survives, on Vandaventer Ave. One of these days, I'll get a photo of it. It's not in the best of neighborhoods, but then again, it isn't in the worst neighborhood. Last time I noticed, the building was being used as some sort of lodge for a fraternal organization.
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