Just received this from a friend at CSX on 4/15/02.
Apparently caused by a rider escorting some coaches for a tourist railroad who pulled an emergency brake after seeing wheels derailed on a car he was riding. The result was several more cars derailring after the rider pulled the emergency brake. The train crew was unaware of his presence on the train. Does anyone have more info?

It seems CSX needs encouragement to reverse this action.
-Jim Herron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Foley, Jim
> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 9:26 AM
> To: CSMTALL1
> Cc: 'KEN BRIERS'; 'JEEP (HOME)'
> Subject: NO PRIVATE PASSENGER CARS ON CSXT
>
> ALL ADDRESSED:
>
>
> Due to derailment of Q40611 caused by dead head non-Amtrak passenger cars,
> until further notice, CSXT will not accept any privately owned passenger
> cars of any type, condition, or certification for movement in any CSXT
> general service freight train; no exceptions.
>
> All inquiries concerning movement of non-Amtrak passenger cars should be
> directed to Mark Spalding CSXT Passenger Services at 322-1880
>
>
>
> BILL MCCOY
>
> BY DIRECTIVE OF ROY THIGPEN
> AVP NETWORK OPERATIONS


hrvideo@mindspring.com

I'm frantically trying to find verification on this. Does anyone have any verification of the derailment in question? I would have thought we'd hear about the wreck before the bulletin got out, what with private varnish involved.

Obligatory cynical anti-Iron Horse Fair crack: "Well, so much for a terrific Fair of the Iron Horse next year...." <;-)

lner4472@bcpl.net

According to a report I received tonight, the CSX embargo on passenger equipment is a temporary measure until the
cause of the derailment is determined.

More info should surface Tuesday.

hrvideo@mindspring.com

> According to a report I received tonight,
> the CSX embargo on passenger equipment is a
> temporary measure until the
> cause of the derailment is determined.

> More info should surface Tuesday.

So what was the derailment, and whose cars were involved? I heard a grapevine rumor that the cars were destined to the New Hope & Ivyland, but I haven't heard anything definite. The only derailment I know of on CSX lately happened near Baltimore on the line to Philly on Saturday morning or Friday night.

lner4472@bcpl.net

Have heard that UP has tightened up on moving private cars also. Will no longer allow riders. If shipper insists on coverage, UP will provide one of the Heritage Fleet people from Omaha and woudl bet this is not cheap.

Before your frantic antics, note the original post said in "manifest freight trains."

Temporary or not, I doubt this has any effect on the Fair of the Iron Horse.

Did Chessie the cat bite you once?


Rob

> I'm frantically trying to find verification
> on this. Does anyone have any verification
> of the derailment in question? I would have
> thought we'd hear about the wreck before the
> bulletin got out, what with private varnish
> involved.

> Obligatory cynical anti-Iron Horse Fair
> crack: "Well, so much for a terrific
> Fair of the Iron Horse next year...."
> <;-)


http://chicago.railfan.net/cgi/photos.pl/?page=RBBX_consist
trains@robertjohndavis.com

There is no reason for having a rider anyway. It is only one more person to screw things up and get in the way. If someone needs to see the cars enroute they should follow along in a chase car and stay out of the way of the real railroaders. Word on the street is that the rider on this move caused the trouble. I hope this is not the case.

Tom Gears


Forgotten Delaware
tom@forgottendelaware.com

> There is no reason for having a rider
> anyway. It is only one more person to screw
> things up and get in the way. If someone
> needs to see the cars enroute they should
> follow along in a chase car and stay out of
> the way of the real railroaders. Word on the
> street is that the rider on this move caused
> the trouble. I hope this is not the case.

I agree. I have been escort or "shotgun rider" for about a dozen long-distance private-car movements over main lines, a good number if not the majority of them over CSX, and never once did the railroad, the car owners, or I even consider the possibility of actually *riding* the cars in question. Of course, most of the cars in question were not equipped as self-contained cars, and riding the head end when your "home-shop-for-repair" car is riding the rear kind of defeats the purpose.
Has ANYONE heard what actually happened--where, what cars, what railroad? I don't want to condemn anyone without hearing the facts, but...... did the passenger car(s) indeed derail first, and why?

lner4472@bcpl.net

> Before your frantic antics, note the
> original post said in "manifest freight
> trains."

> Temporary or not, I doubt this has any
> effect on the Fair of the Iron Horse.

> Did Chessie the cat bite you once?

1) When I've escorted cars that were tied to manifests, they hustled. When orders said that they were not to be handled in manifests, it was nothing short of pathetic. I've seen cars languish unclaimed in yards for three days, knuckles busted by switching crews, had crews argue endlessly with me with any lame excuse imaginable to not add this "complication" to their day or trip, etc. In my experience, no owner of a "worthy" private car is going to chance sending their jewel, business plan, or investment via the fourth-class banana-boat service rendered by non-manifests. If it's valuable, they won't chance damage; if it's a working car like the Orient Express fleet, they can't spare the car in non-revenue service that long.

2) If they are acting this way about non-self-propelled PVs, what are they likely to say about even more complicated steam or diesel locomotives? "Put it on a flat car"?

3) No, Chessie never bit or scratched me. But a lot of Baltimore and B&O Museum representatives engage automatically in too much apparently well-rehearsed "spin-doctoring" whenever the issue of CSX co-operation with the Fair is raised, always without directly answering the question or acknowledging what should be painfully obvious by now.
Thus far, I've heard rumors about ONE party that MIGHT be sending two pieces--one apparently fully FRA compliant as is today, and the other a piece easily trucked or taken on a flat car. And some have pointed out to me that miracles of planning can happen in less than a year, but I reply that the "miracles" cited (Sacramento, St. Louis, etc.) had the benefit of cooperative main line railroads--one a star itself with its own steam program. The "big players" in mainline steam right now are simply too darn far away to be an option for Baltimore.

lner4472@bcpl.net

I made about a dozen escort trips in the early 1980's for a dealer who was selling cars to Mexico. The route was from Sayre, PA to Laredo, Texas and I was allowed to choose any routing I wanted. I ran the cars over CR, SR, L&N, Amtrak, MP, SSW (SP), and TM at various times plus one trip from Florida to Laredo over SCL and MP. I rode the cars on every trip as they were self contained with generators and a/c. We were usually on fast freights and, where possible, piggyback trains.

Some of the things I prevented include: Several attempts to hump the cars, delays lasting up to several delays, placement in the center of a train, kicking the cars in yards, break-ins and vandalism. Given the climate of today's railroaders who have little to no experience with passenger equipment, an escort is a good investment.

In my opinion, riding a car being shipped is a good idea if the car is equipped for someone to do so. Otherwise, an escort can do many of the tasks needed by driving. It's the personal contact that gets the job done.

-Jim Herron

hrvideo@mindspring.com

Steamtown's car shop finished a U. S. Army Hospital Car for a museum in Florida, and it went out Saturday.

On a highway trailer.

It is one of earlier cars with six-wheel trucks and conventional bearings but I understand some of the logic was fear of damage to the car while enroute by rail.

The Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Guys, its not just CSX. For us, its CN. They have made it crystal clear that although our combine, which does have friction bearings, has a heritage with them, they won't even move it via flatcar. They WILL NOT EVEN THINK of moving it for us, period. ANd this after donating two GP-30's????? And this is basically from Midland to Port Huron (unfortunately Saginaw to Port Huron on the CSX was severed 10 years ago, but it now sounds as if they wouldn't have been an option either.) We helped CN with the 100th Anniversary of the St. Clair River Tunnel in 1991-1992: now they act as if we are the anti-christ, or at least a bug not to be bothered with. Funny; they obviously only wanted to deal with us when THEY needed it.

Instead, we had to wait for Spring-thaw restrictions to be lifted in St. Clair, Lapeer, Genesee and Bay Counties before we could move the car. Our official move date now: April 30. I'll let those interested in following the car on I-75, I-475. and I-69 know when she leaves.

More later,
TJG

P.S.- Finally loaded a new photo of the interior below. This would be looking back toward the smoking section.

> Steamtown's car shop finished a U. S. Army
> Hospital Car for a museum in Florida, and it
> went out Saturday.

> On a highway trailer.

> It is one of earlier cars with six-wheel
> trucks and conventional bearings but I
> understand some of the logic was fear of
> damage to the car while enroute by rail.


Port Huron Museum

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org