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| Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30126 |
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| Author: | Stationary Steam [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
Its a problem many of us will deal with at one time or another. Friction bearing or otherwise non compliant locomotives that needs to be moved from one location to another. Going on its own wheels is out of the question, and your only options are either to dismantle it and truck it or move it on a flatcar. Moving a locomotive on a flatcar is probably the easiest and cheapest way to go, only if the costs of hiring cranes at both ends could be avoided. The military solved this problem by operating a small fleet of six axle flatcars equipped with ramps, and in a short time could deploy the ramp and roll on or off locomotives up to 80 tons in weight. Has anyone considered following the military's lead and building a set of portable ramps for loading/unloading rail equipment on flatcars? I would think that such a ramp could be rented out to museums/tourist lines that need to move equipment, and could be moved on a trailer (or be constructed as a trailer) between locations. What are your thoughts on such an idea? I am interested in this since our recently acquired 80 tonner will have to be moved from its current location, and I also have another piece of rail equipment that will have to be loaded for shipment from a steel mill. If I can build a ramp that will save me $3,000 per load/unload then I think it is worth the effort to try. I have been trying to find some good detail shots of the military's portable ramps, but so far have turned up nothing but far away shots. |
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| Author: | James Fouchard [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
I have seen this done by movie studios back in the 1950s-60s to move vintage rail equipment for location shots. here is a photo of ex-V&T RR "Inyo" and cars loaded onto flats at UP"S yards in Los Angeles in 1965, ready to transport to location for filming TV's "The Wild Wild West". 
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| Author: | Stationary Steam [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
The only photo that I have found ofthe locomotive carrying flatcars is this one showing an 80 tonner loaded and the ramp dismantled and loaded on the ends of the car. http://www.traingod.railfan.net/AA/usnavyswitcher.jpg |
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| Author: | sbhunterca [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
We have moved a 4-6-0 and a number of passenger cars by flatcar. The locomotive was loaded via a simple ramp at Delson (now Exporail) which had been built to move equipment to New Brunswick a few years earlier. The ramp was basically a depressed siding which lined up with a ground- level track. http://public.fotki.com/elliottd/sfrmeo ... album--12/ Upon arrival at Smiths Falls, the locomotive was craned off and moved with house moving equipment, since we do not have a live rail connection. The passenger cars which couldn't travel on their own wheels were placed on blocking, with trucks and other removed hardware travelling in gondolas: http://public.fotki.com/elliottd/sfrmeo/sfrmeo8/ These cars required truck moves at both ends- in downtown Toronto and in Smiths Falls- due to lack of rail access. Even with all the time, float and crane rental, it was still far easier and cheaper to do the long haul by flatcar. If you can load/ unload at a friendly shortline, they might allow you to jack up the end of a siding if you put it back and improve it after the move. Likewise, a friendly industry might allow you to do this, and possibly leave the ramp intact. You might also dig a pit at the end of an existing siding, if you know a friendly excavating contractor. This would be easier than jacking the track, and would be easier to restore following the move. It's possible you might be able to use a railway bed float, where the unit can be rolled up onto rails built into the float's frame. 80 tons might be too heavy, but it's worth asking. Vertical curves are the killer. I have a snowplow to move this fall and dearly wanted to use a railway bed float but the vertical curves of the ramp wouldn't allow loading (the plow blade hangs too low). If you were to build portable ramps, I'd be afraid they would need to be quite long to avoid the vertical curve problem. Transporting/ handling them might well require two or three tractor- trailers and a mid- sized crane, negating the savings. I'm looking forward to seeing clever solutions from other groups! Steve Hunter RMEO |
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| Author: | JimBoylan [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
Many times the ramps have been made on site with cribbing made from reasonably good ties and other blocking and shims providing the support. Sometimes the "flat" girder rails used for temporary track on paved streets are a help, as they can be manhandled without a crane and usually come with gauge bars. It may be possible to rent ramps from some of the companies that specialize in moving railroad equipment on flatcars. |
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| Author: | Joe Nugent [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
Your 80 tonner is probably too heavy for this option, but I thought I'd share it anyway: The R&GVRRM has a set of ramps that it can use to load equipment on and off a low-boy trailer. Here is some footage of loading our Vulcan 0-4-0: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXygrgtVq0A And unloading: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUYtQpg5 ... annel_page I will note that this was all done before my time, so I can't offer too many more details. Joe |
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| Author: | sbhunterca [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
Here's a photo of the railway bed float we considered using to move our snowplow. We may still use it, although the plow will need to be lifted on due to nose clearance: http://www.hudsonsupply.ca/PDF/63.pdf Scroll down to the bottom. The ramp up over the wheels is an add-on specifically for moving tampers and other track equipment for a local contractor. It's quite likely similar units with greater weight capacity might exist in your area. Our contractor, GC Hudson of Brockville, Ontario, has never said what the rig's maximum weight capacity is although he didn't bat an eye at the plow's 35 tons. This float's length is extendable although that likely carries a cost in weight capacity. http://www.hudsonsupply.ca Steve Hunter RMEO |
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| Author: | Stationary Steam [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
I have been considering constructing my own set of ramps that I can use for moving the 80 tonner and other rail equipment, either on or off a flat car or semi trailer. I have a fab shop and can construct such a ramp. I am hoping to find that someone else has already done this and then I can just avoid some of the engineering issues by modifying an existing design. Thus my reason for trying to find photos of the military ramps. Ideally such a ramp would have its own highway axles and hitch, so that when being transported can be towed behind a pickup. It would be able to set down on a paved surface, retract the highway wheels and then put down a set of transition pieces that would go between the ramp and car or semi trailer. If such a ramp could be constructed, it would solve my problem and might be of use to others in similar situations. Some of the questions that I have mainly revolve around the ramp angle and dealing with the vertical curvature, and what the total overall length might be. Thanks for the help thus far. |
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| Author: | PCook [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
One of the big problems with ramp loading of railroad equipment onto flat cars is the lack of flexibility in six wheel trucks and locomotive running gear to accomodate the uneven track geometry usually present with a ramp that gains height over its run. A flat loading situation using a ramp as an endwise bridge from an elevated track to a flat car on a depressed track would be better for the equipment, but few museums have the space to set up that kind of permanent loading and unloading dock. A crane lift may not be that much more expensive and in many cases is safer for both the personnel and the equipment. And in the case of diesel-electric locomotives, you might want to remove the prime mover, generator, and trucks to reduce the weight of the locomotive, and will have to use a crane for that anyway. PC |
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| Author: | Ted Miles [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
You might want to talk to the people at the Western Pacific Railroad Museum at Portola,California. A few years ago they moved a bunch of equipment between Rio Vista and Portola on on or two of those military flat cars you were talking about. Since that time they used the same cars to move some equipment for the Golden Gate Railroad Museum and the Niles Canyon Railway. I think they just use cranes to do the actual loading and unloading. it sure does help to have a rail connection. The Pacific Locomotive Association built a mile of track so they could get to a siding to connect with the Union Pacific Railroad which owns most of the track in this neck of the woods. Ted Miles |
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| Author: | sbhunterca [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
Another possibility might be a set of portable jacks, to lift the engine high enough to roll the float (VERY carefully) underneath at the loading site, and out at the unloading site. The trucks might need to be chained so they don't droop too far as the weight is lifted off them. Does anybody have a set of jacks that might work (both from weight capacity and lift height)? A reasonably heavy truck would be needed to move them, preferably with a hoist to simplify placing the jacks and any cribbing. A compressor of adequate capacity would be needed as well. Steve Hunter RMEO |
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| Author: | Stationary Steam [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
You mean this move? http://www.nyow.org/nyow_101.html |
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| Author: | Mike LaBouliere [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
Here's how we got a 25 tonner onto and off a lowboy. Lots of blocking, gauge rods and siding with a paved area, just simply built track up to it. http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 20Services http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 20Services http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 20Services http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 20Services |
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| Author: | Mr. Ed [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
Our hauler uses track sections 2' long. These are tracks that were originally used in streets and are basically a block with a groove cut in them for the wheels. They are extremly strong and rigid. He will put these together with plates and bolts on cribbing and depending on how heavy the load, the more cribbing he uses. We moved the N6b chassis on and off of his flatbed that way. He also has an electric winch at the back for pulling the car on. He uses the same method for moving trolleys, his mainstay business. Later! Mr. Ed |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Moving Rail Equipment Via Flatcar |
Royal Hudson #2839 moved from PA to CA on a flatcar, I don't even think it was a depressed center but I might be wrong. BC&G #14 moved from Wilmington and Western to it's display in Gaithersburg, MD on a flat, not a depressed center for sure. Reading #2100 moved to the West on a flatcar. |
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