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Searching for Heavyweights
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Author:  N.C. Guest [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:56 am ]
Post subject:  Searching for Heavyweights
Dear Friends,

I'm trying to compile a list of remaining heavyweight cars. Each year we lose a few more. I will be posting every now and again asking for help in locating certain cars and I hope someone will know and reply.

Currently, I'm looking for any existing Pullman Plan 3951 Baggage-Buffet-Club Smoking Car with Barbershop. Lot number 4885 consisted of 47 cars built Oct-Nov 1925. The only car I know is in existence is the "National Road, " which after service on the B&O went to EMD. Can anyone tell me the current location of this car? Also, do any others still exist?

I am also looking to compile an up-to date list of the remaining PRR P-70s and any P-70 combines.

Finally, I am hoping to assemble a community of interest around a former NYC heavyweight dining car named the Lion Gardiner in hopes of preserving it. Anyone interested?

Thanks for your time.
Sincerely,
Nathaniel Guest
ncg1@cornell.edu

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Author:  Howard P. [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
With all due respect Nathaniel, and I say this as an unrepentant lover of heavyweight passenger cars, "Lion Gardiner" (aka D&H 154) is simply hopeless. It's a pattern for a $2 million project, at best. 20 years ago, it was in wretched condition, and leaving it open and exposed out on the line at Kingston all those years hasn't done it any favors. And, I do have some prior knowledge and involvement with the car. Let it go; save what you can from it, document the cadaver.

Put your enthusiasm to work on a better candidate. I know of 4 or 5 of them not far from Kingston, east of the river. If you're interested, let me know.

Howard P.
Author:  Miketherailfan [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
Jerry Jacobson owns several heavyweight coaches, some roller bearing equipped, which are former CN, Southern, and CB&Q heritage.
Author:  Ted Miles [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
The Western Railway Museum is preserving in Car barn Three the Western Pacific baggage car 128, Western Pacific 653 and Circumnavigators Club all of them by built by Pullman and all heavyweights.

Hope this helps.

Good idea to do a list. They have done it with electric equipment and steam locomotives; so I am sure it is possible to do passenger cars.

Ted Miles
Author:  buzz_morris [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
If your list shows Harlowton/ Camp Grant / Terra Haute /or MILW X-830 Heavyweight parlor solarium it was scrapped at the IRM summer 2009.
We did save some of the interior and I am interested in the fate of Camp Grant’s remaining sister, Camp Randal/Madison/X-420. Reportedly on a ranch somewhere in
Wyoming, any info much appreciated.
Author:  Termite7 [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
I for one would love to see detailed pictures of the exactly what the Lion Gardiner needs. I have heard a number of stories about how bad the car is but it does not (at first glance) look worse then many that have been brought back.

Anymore all heavy weights are a pattern for $2 million restorations...and the number of heavyweight diners is pretty small and getting smaller. A car like this may be worth stabilizing and bringing back slowly over a great number of years.

It seems like too many museums are sitting on derelict heavyweights that A) they cannot afford to do anything with and B) would consider selling for "the right donation"...which keeps the cars in limbo.

T7
Author:  eldiner [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
Termite7 wrote:
Anymore all heavy weights are a pattern for $2 million restorations...and the number of heavyweight diners is pretty small and getting smaller. A car like this may be worth stabilizing and bringing back slowly over a great number of years.

T7


Well, I hope not quite that bad, but right now I am comfortable putting a heavyweight restoration in the $500,000 to $750,000 range.
Author:  filmteknik [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
Here are a couple of ATSF heavyweight cars that no longer exist. Baggage/rider coach 2611 and Baggage/RPO 2041. They were at the old Thompson Winery location south of Monee, Illinois. Parted & scrapped by IRM in late 2008. (IRM got the last two steam locomotives which had been brought over from another Thompson property.)

Stenciling on the baggage/coach indicated it was still in service in 1970. On the baggage RPO, 1968.

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Author:  Howard P. [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
These two look pretty decent; certainly better than "LG". Was it that they were land-locked and expensive to move?

Howard P.
Author:  Les Beckman [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
Howard -

Land locked and expensive to move, yes. Also, since departments at IRM "pay" for track space for each of their cars at the museum, I think that the passenger car department didn't feel that this expense against their budget was warranted. Too bad, because you are right; both cars were in decent shape.

Les
Author:  ctjacks [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
What is the date and location of the photo of the National Road?
Author:  car57 [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
Dont know if this counts as a survivor, but survive it does and it looks in great shape too. This one of unknown origin (so far) is in a trailer park in Cheyenne.

Mike Pannell

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Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
It might behoove you to post a list somewhere online of what you have so far, so we can spot obvious and not-so-obvious omission. For example, I can point you to five Pullman day coaches (all ex-camp car condition) at White Deer, Pa. at the Central Pa. Chapter NRHS museum at the Reading RR station there.......
Author:  Al Stangenberger [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
If the list includes heavyweights which have been restored and modified to Amtrak compatibility, Kitchi Gammi Club is one.
Author:  Les Beckman [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Searching for Heavyweights
The wife and I rode the Empire Builder out west this past July. As we approached Minot, North Dakota, I noticed a heavyweight combine in a garden center on the east side of town. The car looked to be in excellent shape. Anyone know the story? And the cars heritage?

Thanks.

Les
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