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Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
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Author:  PLATFORMCAR [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
Was curious as to the deteriorated conditions that exist at the Railway Miuseum of Greater Cincinnati yard in Covington KY I had the opportunity to visit this location a few weeks ago, and found it be an unfortunate example of what many museums might become ( or have become ) , unless indoor storage, collection management and fund raising does not happen fast at many locations.

Perhaps unlike any other museum, this location is just a rail yard, with waist high weeds, dangerous conditions, rusted out cars, and no effort to identify the objects that exist on the property. The collection of cars, etc shows major signs of neglect, with little to no signs of preservation ( protecting cars, etc from the weather, priming cars, etc etc )

Not attempting to be overly critical, however it is certainly safe to say, that a majority of this collection is at risk of being lost, due to neglect.

A few random photographs are included to give you an idea of what is going on . Note the photographs are the museum grounds, where paying visitors walk ( not some behind the scenes area ) nor were these pictures intended to just show deteriorated conditions.. They are indicative of most of the property..

Can anyone speak on behalf of those in Cincinnati, as to what the future holds for this collection ?


Dean Levin

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Author:  PLATFORMCAR [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
a few more photographs ( more can be posted if anyone has an interest )

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Author:  perudale [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
Most cars are privately owned. Locomotives and some equipment are owned by museum. twenty years ago the museum had a rail connection to CSX. It was destroyed in a derailment at the switch connecting to the Museums trackage. The museum purchased the former ex-L&N (Shortline) yard from Chessie before CSX arrived. The Shortline was a nickname for the route to Louisville, KY. since it was shorter than several other railroads from Cincinnati, OH to Louisville.

The switch was never repaired and all rail equipment has been land locked in the grounds. The Museum has gone to court to have it's contract with CSX to replace the switch enforced. The Museum has won several times in court. However CSX simply pays the fines and refuses to work with the museum. At one time before CSX, the Museum loaned working equipment to the Family Lines to host local tours to Decoursey for L&N employees.

Since many cars are privately owned and with no possible access to active track has resorted in owners being reluctent to repair cars. Since it is unknown how the cars would be allowed back on active rails and earning revenue again.

The former switch position was the original track access location to the rebuilt Shortline yards. One of the former yard lead tracks that led to the yards are the tracks that cut off at KY. Rt 16, Decoursey Pike and and once crossed the highway are now cut off from the former L&N main lines that once served the Latonia station several blocks away. Also this is the L&N trackage that connected to Cincinnati, OH. or Corbin, KY. This trackage is owned by the Museum but only extends a few hundred feet.

I am not a member of the Museum, however I have talked to many members over the years and this is the frustrations that they have had to put up with. In some other previous years some of the better maintained cars were used in several major movies filmed in the Greater Ciincinnati area. The usual lack of funding and lack of broad enough membership base to support the museum is like many other similiar museums.

Dale Brown
Author:  car57 [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
Land locked or not if you are the owner of any of those cars its a disgrace. There is no excuse for lack of maintenance on something you own, why doesnt the museum stop grizzling and start making themselves more presentable to the public, and wow someone may think its worth paying to see this stuff !

Mike Pannell
Author:  googanelli [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
There are quite a few bad cars in the museum. There are also quite a few that the volunteers have been working to keep somewhat intact. When you first reach the museum, there is an sw1 that needs work, but is presentable, two pullman sleepers, some budd cars and lots of cabooses.

The biggest issue with raising revenue is how? Most transportation museums have tons of space to work with where this museum doesn't. A lot of museums also operate to supplement income. These guys don't. I've spoken with the staff and worked with them for photo shoots many times and find them very easy and willing to work with.

If I had anything to say, I wish some of these cars would be preserved. I do know that this museum does has a mission statement that has changed in the last few years. They are looking to get rid of some equipment and obtain others in order to fill that statement. Again, part of it is that they are land locked. And the other part is money.

If you are in Cincinnati, stop by on Wednesdays and weekends. Talk to the staff. Donate money. Even smaller museums need the green stuff.

-Joe
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
Before this becomes another RYPN buffet of eating our own, a gentle reminder that this museum group has been actively trying to find new homes for equipment they cannot or will not restore and maintain.

It is going to get pretty ugly in the preservation world over the next few years if we are to damn every group that cannot afford the upkeep of their collection.

Unless donors or buyers are found, expect a lot of equipment to be scrapped either by man or by time in the near future. It is just the way that it is. Unless a support system like England's lottery fund id introduced here, it's a pretty safe bet government support is on the wane again.

Can we agree that museums with too much rolling stock and too little money are not evil? Can we also agree that there is too much old rail equipment left, and too few resources to deal with it?

Rob
Author:  PLATFORMCAR [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
Appreciate the interesting replies. and certainly I don't think its the intent of anyone to specifically bash or recklessly question what their preservation plan is, however when you see that quantity of equipment neglected in what would appear to have taken quite a bit of time, and being that it is operated as a not for profit institution, one has to question simply "what happened".....?

Landlocked or not, what is there, should be maintained in order ( at a minimum ) to make the grounds at least safe for a visitor .. Privately owned or museum owned, at this point in time it does not matter, the conditions at this location, are without question, unsafe for the public.

Just my opinion, even a bad attorney could make an easy case that little is done for the safety of the paying customer.

I ripped my shirt on a piece of steel hanging off a stainless steel car while navigating weeds that were up to my waist... Didn't expect that to happen..

Dean Levin

( photo's include New Haven Race Point, FEC Lake Okeechobee, and I think a PRR Cascade series car )

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Author:  wilkinsd [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
PLATFORMCAR wrote:
Just my opinion, even a bad attorney could make an easy case that little is done for the safety of the paying customer.

I ripped my shirt on a piece of steel hanging off a stainless steel car while navigating weeds that were up to my waist... Didn't expect that to happen..


Really Dean? Given all of the photos of the equipment you've posted on this forum, and all of the museums you've visited and lambasted, you didn't expect that walking in high weeds around rusty rail equipment could possibly be dangerous? Given your alleged familiarity with rail equipment, you didn't know that old, unmaintained equipment could possibly have rusty pieces of metal hanging off that could hurt you? Really? Sorry, this "bad attorney" doesn't buy your story. My guess is that you were so excited, and worked up over being able to photograph bad-looking rail equipment, and post it on RYPN, so you could ask "questions" you just weren't paying attention like you should.

David Wilkins
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
Let me get this straight: Someone is charging admission to wander this railroad "yard"? Is there at least a railroad station building with something worth looking at, or better pieces back in the "main yard" somewhere open to the public?

At least when I pay $1 to wander Crazy Ray's Auto Parts yard, I go in with a toolbox and the expectation that I may be able to find the parts I need for my car, and pay for them on my way out the gate if I do find them............
Author:  Les Beckman [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
wilkinsd wrote:
PLATFORMCAR wrote:
Just my opinion, even a bad attorney could make an easy case that little is done for the safety of the paying customer.

I ripped my shirt on a piece of steel hanging off a stainless steel car while navigating weeds that were up to my waist... Didn't expect that to happen..


Really Dean? Given all of the photos of the equipment you've posted on this forum, and all of the museums you've visited and lambasted, you didn't expect that walking in high weeds around rusty rail equipment could possibly be dangerous? Given your alleged familiarity with rail equipment, you didn't know that old, unmaintained equipment could possibly have rusty pieces of metal hanging off that could hurt you? Really? Sorry, this "bad attorney" doesn't buy your story. My guess is that you were so excited, and worked up over being able to photograph bad-looking rail equipment, and post it on RYPN, so you could ask "questions" you just weren't paying attention like you should.

David Wilkins


David -

I think you really missed the point on this one! Dean is used to trains and still ripped his shirt on a piece of hanging steel. What about someone who was a casual visitor (as most are) and would REALLY not be looking for hazards? I think the photos speak for themselves.

Les
Author:  mikefrommontana [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
Wading through waist high weeds usually keeps the casual visitor out of hazardous areas. Were I there, I'd be more worried about boards with nails sticking up or other hazards. Realize the group is trying to thin the herd (that's still a cute Baldwin) but it would be practical (and an equipment selling point) to mow the weeds and keep the walkways clear.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT
Author:  wilkinsd [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
Les Beckman wrote:
David -

I think you really missed the point on this one! Dean is used to trains and still ripped his shirt on a piece of hanging steel. What about someone who was a casual visitor (as most are) and would REALLY not be looking for hazards? I think the photos speak for themselves.

Les


Les,

I'm leary about the typical "look how horrible XYZ Museum is!" type of posts. I could go to literally every museum in the country, take slective, close-in photos of some rusted old equipment on the "back 40" and make it appear as if the whole palce is a horrible and dangerous place to visit.

I typically don't pass judgment and "eat our own" on a museum unless I've visited it in person. I don't know if Dean walked beyond some sort of barrier, or what the presentation of their equipment is. Was the equipment "on public display" or did Dean simply seek out the stuff hidden in the back because he's interested in passenger cars.

In this business it's easy to shown "concern" by posting some photos on a web message board. However, it takes more than this alleged showing of "concern" to do anything about it.
Author:  Stephen S. Syfrett [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Museum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
It seems apparent from this 9-minute video posted in April of this year that not all of the property is overgrown, and it sure looks to me like they have some nicely preserved pieces there. I didn't realize the ACL Pass-A-Grille Beach was there, but it's in the video. Lots of interesting stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayAoliznumw

Maybe in the intervening growing season some areas "got away" and grew up, but it looks like most of the "public space" is kept cleaned up. I've seen worse!

This is not a commentary on either Dean's posting or David's reaction. As ADM4 has often stated:

"Google is your friend" (or something similar!)
Author:  wilkinsd [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Museum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
Stephen S. Syfrett wrote:
It seems apparent from this 9-minute video posted in April of this year that not all of the property is overgrown, and it sure looks to me like they have some nicely preserved pieces there. I didn't realize the ACL Pass-A-Grille Beach was there, but it's in the video. Lots of interesting stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayAoliznumw

Maybe in the intervening growing season some areas "got away" and grew up, but it looks like most of the "public space" is kept cleaned up. I've seen worse!

This is not a commentary on either Dean's posting or David's reaction. As ADM4 has often stated:

"Google is your friend" (or something similar!)


Stephen,

I don't take your posting as "commentary." The more information one has, the better decision they can make. I watched the video, and it does give us what I feel is a better, more accurate view of what's going on.
Author:  Mike LaBouliere [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Railway Musseum oF Greater Cincinnati Ohio
The place doesn't look much different from about 60% of most museums out there. Doesn't appear that there shabby looking equipment is right out front for all to see like some places.
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