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| Railroad Oriented Education https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30441 |
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| Author: | PCook [ Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Railroad Oriented Education |
There is an interesting situation developing right now with the class one railroads, Amtrak, and the commuter operators. Large numbers of experienced employees who hired on in the 1970s are retiring, and this is costing the industry some of their most skilled technical talent. At the same time, new employees with the desired skill set to work on modern locomotives are difficult to find. The colleges and universities seem more interested in training graduates for other job markets, and have taken little notice of the railroad industry. I have run into this first hand in discussing the situation with the administration at our state university who, despite widely publicized efforts to promote commuter rail locally, have showed little interest in courses of study directed toward railroad employment. I an curious whether any other participants in this board have discussed railroad education issues with their local university administrators and what sort of a reception they have gotten. It seems like there might be some opportunity here for shortline operators and operating museums to interface cooperatively with the " university community". Your thoughts? PC |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad Oriented Education |
The days of old "vo-tech" education are long gone. Car mechanics and agricultural students are now in for high-tech education if they are to survive anything more than cow-hand and the greasy-handed monkey loitering outside the auto parts store. The plight of most railroaders is more a state of mind than it is a real blue-collar career. The days of the company town and massive employment by railroads are long gone. Today, you have to convince a potential engineer to sacrifice anywhere from ten to twenty years of a "social life" to get that career in railroading. Forget having a "normal" 9 to 5 job or even being able to plan your own schedule, unless you're one of the lucky few a short line will hire. People at least used to know what a truck driver's life was like to compare; now even that's past the public's consciousness. Consider the available alternatives more hospitable to having a spouse or a life; any wonder why railroads have a hard time filling positions in the 21st century? We have at least one Class One railroader on this forum--would he agree with my assessment? (Yes, Brother Paul, I'm looking at you....) |
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| Author: | jcmark611 [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad Oriented Education |
What positions are you talking about? Anyone who starts out on the operations side is going to subject to the 24/7 lifestyle, but there are probably many mechanical department jobs that a college graduate could get that have regular hours. In my time at CSX I saw kids right out of college go from trainmaster to a desk job within 2 or 3 years. |
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| Author: | Stationary Steam [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad Oriented Education |
More than one Class One railroaders here. Well make that an "ex" railroader. Four years with CSX as a conductor and then engineer told me that there is more to life than living by the phone, so I left the railroad. I enjoyed my time working for CSX, it gave me an insight into railroading that I did not have before, but it something that I could not give 30 years to. |
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| Author: | PCook [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad Oriented Education |
For information, the primary shortage areas I see developing are locomotive and car maintenance electrical and mechanical skilled jobs, particularly those relating to passenger and commuter rail operations. This area of specialty includes maintenance and troubleshooting of locomotive and car control computer systems, locomotive transmission and controls, HEP engine systems and controls, electronic fuel injection and emissions related systems, event recorders, communications systems, and onboard cab signal system components. PC |
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| Author: | jcmark611 [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad Oriented Education |
With jobs of that type, the issues need to be addressed in high school and a more specialized secondary education. Most kids attending college aren't going to be interested in turning wrenches when they graduate. Maybe by getting high school kids interested, the railroad can direct them to entry level positions on the railroad or some other secondary education, much like the old "Choo-Choo U" CSX had in the late 90's |
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| Author: | PCook [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad Oriented Education |
That is the point quite exactly. There is a need for a more specialized (perhaps two year college level) technical education course of study. There are highly technical jobs available that the railroads are having difficulty finding people with the skills to fill, at the same time that there are protests at universities because their current graduates in "traditional" programs cannot find jobs. And there may be an opportunity for some shortlines and operating museums to work with colleges to address the need, provided of course that you can find anybody on either side who is willing to give it some consideration. In difficult times it might be worthwhile to take a look at some other aspects of education that the preservation community could help to address. PC |
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| Author: | Dave [ Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad Oriented Education |
In my region, there are many guys in the 45-55 year old range that would be pleased to retrain and get good jobs in the field, and work into their late 60's - early 70's, having no retirement account balances left.....a lot of good candidates worked maintaining systems in textile mills and built trucks, busses and repaired aircraft so basic technical skills are already in place and well practiced. 6 months of specific training to get 15-20 years of experienced employment seems like a good deal to the industry, better than starting with people who will need 2 years of basic skills training even before they can start to learn the industry. dave |
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| Author: | Paul Carey [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad Oriented Education |
As to the Class I's, with T&E employees frequently subject to irregular hours and extensive away-from-home dwell (with its predictable effect upon family life), retention and replacement are, and will continue to be, serious issues for management to address... |
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| Author: | CPR4000 [ Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad Oriented Education |
Penn State Altoona is gearing up to provide a four-year degree in Rail and Transit Engineering: http://www.aa.psu.edu/now/news.asp?value=2153 "This innovative Bachelor of Science program will include existing Penn State civil engineering courses and couple them with new, customized courses in rail business, mechanical systems, track, operations, communications, and regulation." Sounds like a good start. Walt Lankenau |
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| Author: | PCook [ Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Railroad Oriented Education |
Thank you all for this information. I had a chance to take this topic to a local radio talk program yesterday and sent it out on the airwaves to see what kind of a response it might get. In my area we have a $2.2 billion proposed commuter rail project on the table, with the local politicians all crowing about all the new jobs it is going to create. Meanwhile the local branch of the state university shows little interest in commuter rail as a potential job market, and ignores efforts to get the school involved with it. I realize that the "University Community" (as they call themselves) sometimes thinks their judgement is better than all the rest of us (combined?), but it seems to me that in a terrible economy with students holding protests because there are no job offers some administrator somewhere in the bureaucracy might look around, and notice that an industry out there is looking for people with a particular skill set and try to address that need. Walt, thanks for the posting about the Penn State program, that was very useful information. I brought it to the attention of our locals. I still think there might be some opportunities developing for museums to work with colleges to provide training in the railroad industry. PC |
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