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CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30571		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  eldiner [ Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
I was wondering if anyone knows of a list showing where all the Canadian National Cape series 2-2 sleeper lounge cars are today. I know one ended up with UP, one is used by the FRA, and the Cape Tormentine was at the Florida Railroad Museum (their website says they traded it away) - are any other ones still around?
Author:  Brian Norden [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
There was once one of the cars out here in the Los Angeles area. But, I'm not sure what has happened to it.

For those who are unfamiliar with these cars they were Pullman-Standard built. The 2-2-buffet-lounge cars had two bedrooms and two compartments. The arrangement of the space was lounge - buffet - compartment A - bedrooms B&C (connecting) - compartment D - vestibule.
CN 1082 CAPE ROSIER
CN 1083 CAPE BRULE
CN 1084 CAPE PROCUPINE
CN 1085 CAPE RACE
CN 1086 CAPE CANSON
CN 1087 CAPE BRETON
CN 1088 CAPE CHIGNECTO
CN 1089 CAPE TORMENTINE
Author:  eldiner [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
Brian,

Thanks for the list. I have been able to identify where four of them are:

Cape Tormentine - Florida Railroad Museum
Cape Breton - UP Inspection Car "Fox River"
Cape Chignecto - CN business car "TAWAW"
Cape Brule - FRA Test Car - this was the car you saw in LA: it was the "Belle McGee" back in the 1990's

Of these 4, I believe only the Cape Tormentine is unmodified. I understand these cars were mostly used on the "Ocean". To me it is a really interesting configuration. I was under the impression that some (all?) of these cars were used by VIA as well.

I would be interested in the fates of the other 4 cars.
Author:  Brian Norden [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
I think the Hartwell-Lowe car was named Belle McKee -- a name of one of the ancestors of the owning Lowe family,

Back in 1980 I road the Via train from Halifax to Montreal through northern Maine. If I recall correctly one of these cars was on the train. I was traveling a few days before the ARM conference in New Haven, CT, that year and it was just before the Canadian Thanksgiving Day and the train was close to double the regular number of coaches and sleepers.

According to Canadian Nationals Railways Passenger Equipment 1867-1992 (1995) it appears all of the cars went to Via and then most went back to CN. The ones that did not go back to CN were CAPE BRULE, CAPE BRETON and CAPE TORMENTINE.

CAPE ROSIER.......to CN 19008 (no data given)
CAPE PORCUPINE..to CN 15002 "held for conversion to Track Geometry car but conversion not carried out"
CAPE RACE..........to CN 15003 Track Geometry car
CAPE CANSO........to CN 15006 Track Geometry car
CAPE CHIGNECTO..to CN 15166 TAWAW class PS-79 used as Marketing Dept. "reception car"
Author:  eldiner [ Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
Brian Norden wrote:
According to Canadian Nationals Railways Passenger Equipment 1867-1992 (1995) it appears all of the cars went to Via and then most went back to CN. The ones that did not go back to CN were CAPE BRULE, CAPE BRETON and CAPE TORMENTINE.

CAPE ROSIER.......to CN 19008 (no data given)
CAPE PORCUPINE..to CN 15002 "held for conversion to Track Geometry car but conversion not carried out"
CAPE RACE..........to CN 15003 Track Geometry car
CAPE CANSO........to CN 15006 Track Geometry car
CAPE CHIGNECTO..to CN 15166 TAWAW class PS-79 used as Marketing Dept. "reception car"


So it would appear that the Cape Race and Cape Canso became track geometry cars - I guess they may very well still be out there on CN in that service.

It would also appear that the Cape Rosier and Cape Porcupine were not modified. Since they don't appear to exist on CN's business car fleet roster I wonder if they were sold off or scrapped? By having 4 rooms, a small food prep area and a large open space I can see why the FRA and CN use them for inspection purposes.

Any photos or floor plans online?
Author:  Don C. [ Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
Cape Porcupine is sitting at the Milwaukee Road 261 facility in Minneapolis. The car was last used by Loram in a grinding train and the car is being stored at Minneapolis Junction. I was in the car last year and the interior has been significantly modified. The exterior is painted "standard" Loram yellow.

Don C.
Author:  Brian Norden [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
eldiner wrote:
Any photos or floor plans online?
Well, I just remembered that I have a binder of CN passenger car equipment. If it had fallen off the shelf it might have knocked me out. This was purchased years and years ago. The title sheet says "Published 1967 by Canadian National Railways" and "Distributed solely by Upper Canada Railway Society." Addendum/update sheets carry dates of 1 January, 1972, and April 30, 1972.

So here are the two sides of the sheet for the 2-2--buffet-lounge cars in the CAPE series.
Attachment:
File comment: front of sheet
cn_2-2-lng_sheet_front.jpg
cn_2-2-lng_sheet_front.jpg [ 76.15 KiB | Viewed 8882 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: back of sheet
cn_2-2-lng_sheet_back.jpg
cn_2-2-lng_sheet_back.jpg [ 46.64 KiB | Viewed 8882 times ]
Author:  eldiner [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
OK thanks for the info - it has been very helpful.

Now here is a variation. I understand that 6 "Mount" series CN sleepers were converted by VIA into Cape cars. 3 of them were off the roster by 1981 but the other 3, Albreda, Fitzwilliam, and Resplendent, lasted until the big 1990 cuts. The Resplendent became the PV Oliver Hazard Perry. These cars apparently had 1 drawing room, 2 bedrooms, and then a large lounge area. I would be curious if anyone knows what happened to the other 5.
Author:  SZuiderveen [ Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
Three of the "Mount" sleepers that are still all compartment-drawing room cars are in the famous former P&H warehouse in Escanaba, MI. The Albreda is stored in the carshop in Wells, MI; privately owned by one of the former owners of the Cape Brule, and is for sale. Here is a cut and paste floorplan of the Albreda.
Attachment:
CAN Sleeper-Buffet-Lounge.jpg
CAN Sleeper-Buffet-Lounge.jpg [ 105.57 KiB | Viewed 8795 times ]


Steve
Author:  Don C. [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
Steve, Brian or anyone else,
As I mentioned in my previous post to this thread, Cape Porcupine is being stored at the FO 261 shop at Minneapolis Junction. It has been used by Loram in a rail grinding train and has had the standard couplers and equipment removed and it is equipped with semi-permanent coupling system.

What type of coupler and drawbar did these cars originally come equipped with? Initial information that we have been able to gather points to a long shank, E-type. Can anyone confirm this from drawings or personal experience? CN office car Tawaw was rebuilt from Cape Chignecto - possibly someone knows what is in this car today.

Thank you for your assistance.

Don C.
Author:  Aarne H. Frobom [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
As usual, I'm operating off a fading memory of the bottom of these cars, but as I recall the entire 1954 CN order had Type "E" couplers, but the dimensions were the same as P-S cars built with Type "H" Tightlocks for US customers. This means that a standard Type "H" drawbar and elastomeric draft gear drop in if you want to convert, with only a sprung coupler carrier needed. But don't buy any cars or couplers without extensive use of a tape measure.

Aarne Frobom
Swivel Butt, Michigan
Author:  Jim Herron [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
The Cape Tormentine is still at the Fla RR Museum as of now.
-JH
Author:  Dick Brundage [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
I think that the Cape Porcupine and another car, possibly of the same type were converted by Industrial Structures Inc., here in Tulsa some years back. ISI has also done work on CP Modular Bunk Cars, (the ones on flatcars) with some of the flat cars being ex RI.
I also remember seeing some of these cars in BNSF's Cherokee some years back and the cars still had friction bearings.
Dick Brundage
Tulsa OK
------------------------------------------------------


As I mentioned in my previous post to this thread, Cape Porcupine is being stored at the FO 261 shop at Minneapolis Junction. It has been used by Loram in a rail grinding train and has had the standard couplers and equipment removed and it is equipped with semi-permanent coupling system.

Don C]
Author:  Don C. [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CN Cape series sleeper lounge cars
Thanks for the information, gentlemen. The Cape Porcupine is available for sale but it will need COT&S work and will need couplers installed. The interior has had some modifications made to it with the installation of partitions, etc. Contact me at: milwaukee261@gmail.com if you are interested and I will forward the information to Steve Sandberg at FO 261.

Thanks.

Don C.
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