So you start with a non-functional engine, get a percentage of the profits, but if you're returned a non-functional engine, you're losing out on that deal?

How did this hick get to be mayor?

Also, the article doesn't explain how this is the mayor's decision at all. Does the town own the museum, or just the Mohawk?

n/m

why did we start a new thread on this?

...because it was in the Trib?

I kinda call it sideways progress, but Ft Wayne was quite gung ho about 765, now see where it is.

There would be media sales of trips the city could take a profit off of, but it seems these "businessmen" know a little bit whats in store, after 15 years of operation it obviously needs refurbishing, like they want to dump the engine after that.

I don't know why Elkhart could say no to this, but its their right.

Mods, maybe add this to the other 3010 thread

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30416

/Mitch

Dealing with this sort of thing with people who have no clue is maddening.
We (SLSTA) went through the same exercise in frustration in the late '90s with Tulsa and the Frisco 4-8-4 4500.
Stonewalled and stonewalled some more. Like pushing a string uphill.
The engine was sitting on a siding dissassembled and had winos living in her firebox, but by God they weren't going to lease, loan or sell her. We could have had her running, but they would rather see her rot.
Thank God she has been cosmetically restored and finally is finding a respectable home. It could have turned out a whole lot worse.

I sent a nemail with my thoughts on the proposal to the mayor Elkhart and received this reply:

Mayor Moore appreciates very much your writing and sharing your thoughts with him. The Mayor asked that I follow up and advise that this matter is currently under consideration.

If the Mayor’s Office can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Denise Blenner
Administrative Assistant
to the Mayor

Gentlemen,

PLEASE!!! This whole thing has the strong odor of BS to it and when you look at it realisticly it doesn't come even close to passing the smell test.

" Someone" is going to spend 2,3,4 or more millions restoring to service a machine that will then have next to nowhere to operate. That sure makes a ton of sense now doesn't it!!

You need look no further than Elkhart's near neighbor Ft. Wayne to see the truth. Much to their credit the Ft. Wayne group labored mightily to get NKP 765 back into top notch operating condition and look at what she's been able to do since in terms of return on investment. Very little.

This whole thing smacks of nonsense.

IMHO- Ross Rowland

Realistically speaking, on the other hand:

Since when has ANY steam locomotive restoration EVER passed the "common sense" or "sound economic reasoning" test, aside from a few aberrations like the Strasburg, Sierra's movie-star fleet, etc. (and even those exceptions require "creative accounting," or we'd still be seeing steam on the Grand Canyon RR)?

I'm not encouraging anyone in Elkhart to restore that loco. But I'm not going to stop them, either, unless I see wholesale incompetence and disaster looming. Maybe we'll see enough "restoration" carried out that she can remain a viable candidate in the future, as opposed to "her boiler's too pitted, the frame is rusted through, etc."

I agree its getting tougher to run excursions, I just hope the "businessmen" are steam smart and the city understands correctly the circumstances, its still not impossible, just when politics creeps in, it gives me the jizzies. It will take ideas, so communicating with the City would be a good idea..(to Stationary Steam)

...dragging a string uphill...heh

765 wasn't a business venture, more a love of labour and the history and interest, and yet it had a lot of excursion runs. It wasnt a businessman venture. Make some money, sure.

Well, we sure have a lot of very specific opinions about an issue we don't know much about other than its broadest outline.

There could be a business plan in hand which makes the entire proposal realistic, including signing on railroads as partners. Or not.

Specific terms may have been proposed to make the proposal unacceptable - such as liability requirements - from the Mayor's POV - or not.

Devil's advocate here - would the best case or worst case scenario be the city executes the lease and the lessees get as far as the tear down and run out of resources and give up, leaving a pile of parts?

Likewise, if they finish the restoration and then it goes NOWHERE for 15 calendar years and the city gets back a restored engine needing only a new tube job with no miles since last overhaul?

Likewise, if the lessees run it constantly and return something in pretty much its current state in 15 years - but with no trips having been run out of its home city?

Or, 15 years down the line a somewhat used but still good machine has made a few runs but not enough to pay for the next 15 year overhaul and this whole process starts over again......and we put ourselves through this pointless exercise ad infinitum?

We don't know enough to have valid opinions based on the stories published. We don't know what outcome would be most favorable or least. We don't own the locomotive or the company making the proposal.

Why are we wriitng about it at all?

dave

I tried to post a reply on the Tribune's page with no success.

As long as the legal language is written well, where can Elkart be harmed? Having the engine being restored is better than the static deteriation testing that is now occurring. At the rate it's going, there won't be an engine for anyone to enjoy in a few more decades. If the city can keep from having to finance the restoration or any liability would be a no brainer. I think having the operator keep a trust up front in the event something were to occur such as breach of contract etc, would give them the funds to move the engine back home.

I'm constantly having a discussion with another railfan friend of mine about the restoration of equipment to operating condition. His argument is the historical fabric. Mine is preservation. Seeing these engines being restored and ran does a lot more for every museum and operating group in the country. Imagine airshows where there are only stuffed and mounted planes. I have seen it done tastefully. Wright Patterson AFB comes to mind. Then I think about seeing these girls fly and wow. Just last month, I went out and watched a local B-25 fly around. Talk about awesome.

Steam locos are the same way. They bring people out in droves. I was trackside last year and even chased the 4449 through Illinois and Indiana. There were tens of thousands of people track side. Having another very desirable engine restored does mean less opportunity for other engines currently restored to be operated. It also means that maybe we have another engine that will be ready when the call comes. I know there are plenty of engines that have been restored and now rest again (819,1522,etc) but not many can argue that they are atleast in a better resting place for now and being cared for waiting on their call.

I've heard JJJ has said many times the reason he goes for new steamers is "because he hasn't seen that one run yet". Let's hope that we get to see the 3001 run. If we don't fight to save them one at a time, we might never see any run.

-Joe