Railway Preservation News :: View topic - “Americans are capable of making and saving great things"

Other than the “Imported From Detroit” tag line, which succeeded in igniting every competitive urge in my body, I also found the overall look and feel of the commercial to be deeply moving. For me, it showed that cities are alive — and can die. And the juxtaposition of progress and the city’s real but often sensationalized ruins was beyond poignant. Yes, moving inventory is critical to Detroit’s recovery, but so is historic preservation.

are we making things now that will matter in the future? KL

Those of us who have worked in heavy industry for many years have watched and lived through the decline of the US industrial sector, a process rushed along by poorly crafted legislation that handicaps US business while supporting products made by poorly paid laborers working in deplorable conditions halfway around the world. But our fellow citizens have spoken with their wallets, cheap and sometimes defective products are preferred, driving US business out of business. It used to take about $1.45 Canadian to buy a US dollar, now it takes 98 cents. By next year I expect you can buy a US dollar for 75 cents Canadian. If you want to see why, Google "Adjusted Monetary Base" and see how fast we are printing money that is essentially worthless.

Some future museum may feature a US dollar printed when it was worth something.

PC

The best damn line was "imported from Detroit." Friggin' awesome.
TJG

Amen! Yes, American workers cost more to employee, but the productivity of the American worker is also head and shoulders above the competition, so the labor cost is offset through increased productivity. What American heavy industry suffers from is NIMBYs, tree huggers, high-taxing, big-spending politicians and the weight of regulations that grows literally by the minute - from ADA to EPA to FRA to IRS to OSHA, our government is regulating us into oblivion. Not only does all of this regulation increase the cost of doing business tremendously and create whole cottage industries for regulatory compliance (crony capitalism at its best), it severely hampers competition and creates artificial barriers to market entry; thus costing society untold amounts economic benefit and efficiency.

The best damn line was "imported from Detroit." Friggin' awesome.

I may not be a big fan of Eminems music, but he got it right....we ain't pretty, we have taken some serious hits, we've made mistakes, and we'll probably make more. But we're still here.....even when all the naysayers seemingly wish we weren't.

We didn't just make great things....we continue to make GREAT things...if people would choose to notice, and buy something because its made well, and becuase its a buck cheaper...

Even if we take away all the regulations are Americans going to work for 15 hours a day making $20 a week?

Author:	nathansixchime [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:	“Americans are capable of making and saving great things"
Quote: Other than the “Imported From Detroit” tag line, which succeeded in igniting every competitive urge in my body, I also found the overall look and feel of the commercial to be deeply moving. For me, it showed that cities are alive — and can die. And the juxtaposition of progress and the city’s real but often sensationalized ruins was beyond poignant. Yes, moving inventory is critical to Detroit’s recovery, but so is historic preservation. http://blog.preservationnation.org/2011/02/07/preservation-round-up-the-keep-detroit-beautiful-edition/ A essay on the "Imported from Detroit" Chrysler commercial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKL254Y_jtc&feature=player_embedded that ran during the Super Bowl from the National Trust for Historic Preservation. I think there are a number of reasons why these types of advertisements are garnering such a reaction and it's something that we in railroad preservation (and rail transport advocation) can springboard off of. After all, aren't we still doing the same things that made this country so long ago? One challenge is to ask that if we're working to preserve things that matter from history, are we making things now that will matter in the future? KL

Author:	Stephen Hussar [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
nathansixchime wrote: are we making things now that will matter in the future? KL I ask this question all the time. I don't have an answer but do wonder what will fill our museums 50 or 100 years from now...I see ipods, ipads and MANY other objects that can't be repaired or restored... I too liked the Chrysler/eminem spot and thought the Fox theater was an interesting choice of "venue" for the spot's payoff. Stephen

Author:	Dave [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
are we making things now that will matter in the future? KL[/quote] I'd suggest that we are making many mistakes that will haunt us for a very long time, or maybe just similar mistakes over and over, sort of like Larry King and weddings. There's a sort of belief system that encourages the idea that one philosophy is universally applicable and if held religiously it will even fix the problems it caused through overuse in circumstances not favorable for it. People who hold different philosophies all share this in common. But seriously, folks, we are leading in some respects in energy and communications technology. I'd like to see us start doing more in appropriate technology and small custom solutions - and solutions meaning mechanical and electrical hardware, not computer programs. We'd be very far ahead of the curve if we could develop a filter to remove unnecessary communications from the systems that connect us, and optimizing it for only what needs to be transferred. OMG! dave

Author:	AlderGulch12 [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
As private individuals we sure are. It's the follow through we have issues with.

Author:	PCook [ Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
Those of us who have worked in heavy industry for many years have watched and lived through the decline of the US industrial sector, a process rushed along by poorly crafted legislation that handicaps US business while supporting products made by poorly paid laborers working in deplorable conditions halfway around the world. But our fellow citizens have spoken with their wallets, cheap and sometimes defective products are preferred, driving US business out of business. It used to take about $1.45 Canadian to buy a US dollar, now it takes 98 cents. By next year I expect you can buy a US dollar for 75 cents Canadian. If you want to see why, Google "Adjusted Monetary Base" and see how fast we are printing money that is essentially worthless. Some future museum may feature a US dollar printed when it was worth something. PC

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Author:	pm-man [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
The best damn line was "imported from Detroit." Friggin' awesome. I'm just damned happy to not see or hear people ripping on the State of Michigan for once, and understanding that there is a future that can be tied to, in part, the industry that this state and country still has. No, we can't rely on it like we once did....but I guarantee you that when people begin to buy cars and the auto industry (and its HUNDREDS of suppliers) once again employs, the country will begin to see the positive that they bring again, rather than bashing them every five seconds...why is it we love to kick ourselves when were down? I may not be a big fan of Eminems music, but he got it right....we ain't pretty, we have taken some serious hits, we've made mistakes, and we'll probably make more. But we're still here.....even when all the naysayers seemingly wish we weren't. We didn't just make great things....we continue to make GREAT things...if people would choose to notice, and buy something because its made well, and becuase its a buck cheaper... From the state that used to make as many passenger cars as it did automobiles, TJG

Author:	Newriver400 [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
PCook wrote: Those of us who have worked in heavy industry for many years have watched and lived through the decline of the US industrial sector, a process rushed along by poorly crafted legislation that handicaps US business while supporting products made by poorly paid laborers working in deplorable conditions halfway around the world. But our fellow citizens have spoken with their wallets, cheap and sometimes defective products are preferred, driving US business out of business. It used to take about $1.45 Canadian to buy a US dollar, now it takes 98 cents. By next year I expect you can buy a US dollar for 75 cents Canadian. If you want to see why, Google "Adjusted Monetary Base" and see how fast we are printing money that is essentially worthless. Some future museum may feature a US dollar printed when it was worth something. PC Amen! Yes, American workers cost more to employee, but the productivity of the American worker is also head and shoulders above the competition, so the labor cost is offset through increased productivity. What American heavy industry suffers from is NIMBYs, tree huggers, high-taxing, big-spending politicians and the weight of regulations that grows literally by the minute - from ADA to EPA to FRA to IRS to OSHA, our government is regulating us into oblivion. Not only does all of this regulation increase the cost of doing business tremendously and create whole cottage industries for regulatory compliance (crony capitalism at its best), it severely hampers competition and creates artificial barriers to market entry; thus costing society untold amounts economic benefit and efficiency. As far as "Imported from Detroit" goes as a commercial, there were positives and negatives to the ad. My first thoughts were: I ride through northern Indiana and southern Michigan on freight trains almost daily and there is no exaggeration as to how far industrial America has fallen and that it is especially acute in Detroit and Michigan. Detroit still has a few pockets of life, but a lot of it is deserving of the moniker New Falujah. I wouldn't leave my new car parked outside like Slim Shady did without expecting it to be on blocks stripped when I got back. Finally, if I was Chrysler, why would I want Eminem as the face or spokesman of my company? Better company spokespersons with more positive images from Detroit would be much better - Aaliyah, Aretha, Cece Winans, Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson, Ted Nugent, or even Kid Rock or Madonna have much more positive images than Slim Shady. As far as Kelly's comments, I do think that tying into the sentiment of American greatness and exceptionalism that was so personified by the Golden Age of railroading is a GREAT marketing angle that really needs exploited. This is yet another reason why heritage tourism continues to be a growth segment.

Author:	Mgoldman [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
pm-man wrote: The best damn line was "imported from Detroit." Friggin' awesome. TJG There are two, no, three ways to look at that commercial - on the positive side, as Kelly suggested and others seem to have latched on to, or in a patriotic way as the commercial is clearly intent on doing (buy American / support America) yet a third way to see that commercial is to view it as a foreign company selling foreign cars made in American factories owned by foreign industry - Fiat, if I recall correctly having passed on from Daimler. I suppose Toyota and Honda could run similar patriotic commercials? And perhaps even a Chinese company should one get a contract to build HSR in either FL or CA. This is not to imply that Americans gain in the situation vrs no Chrysler at all but I wonder just how many folks know that one of Detroit's "Big Three" is a foreign company? Personally, I've always bought American automobiles, though my last "American" car was built in Canada. /Mitch

Author:	J3a-614 [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
The concept of the ad--America and Detroit are great (still)--reminded me of this 1956 variant from Dodge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwrcAhwEac Be careful, YouTube can be addictive with the other things that link up to what you are looking for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBm7CbRX ... re=related I look at the above comments, and I have such a mixed reaction myself, particularly from New River 400. The sentiment that we have a wonderful story to tell, combined with impressive machinery and technology, is our strongest point. The observation, originally by Kelly if I recall correctly, and speaking from his movie background, that we have a lot of great set dressers and modelers and painters but are short of good script writers, also seems to hold true. I've commented about this before, but it seems appropriate to recall it here--a problem we face is that railway preservation "gets no respect, no respect at all." John White has mentioned this occuring at a fund-raising event at the Smithsonian, others here have mentioned this in regard to dealing with NIMBYs. The latter have called us a bunch of guys who like to play with "choo-choo trains" or 1:1 "Lionels." The comments that followed a newspaper story that was linked here on the Adirondack Railroad are only some of the more recent examples; I can cite others that are much more extreme (this is in regard to Amtrak), some of which are almost frightening, complete with guns-and-God talk. We certainly face misunderstanding (if not outright hostility) from at least one very large Class I that shall go unnamed here (and ironically, it was once one of the most friendly, even sponsoring a steam program). I've faced much of this personally, having even been called a Communist (this was while trying to promote a light rail line that would have also doubled as a tourist attraction as an alternative to a 4-lane highway). And interestingly, I also tried to sell the story to Hollywood as a television series, an action-commedy for lack of a better description, but couldn't sell it to save my soul. I think an excessively pure pursuit of money is a bigger problem for this country than the alleged excessive list of regulations. I've been told that the life expectancy of a business in a booming (competitive) town prior to the Civil War was only about 6 months or so (which sounds like the modern 50% anual failure rate of small business startups that has been cited by the Small Business Administration), and this was in an era with little if anything in the way of taxes and regulation. On the other hand, we have an embarassing number of examples of misbehavior by people with more money than any of us will ever see who ruin good enterprises for financial gain (consider the histories of the Washington and Minneapolis transit systems in the late 1940s as just two cases, both of which involved persons who would later go to jail). I wish I could offer better solutions to these difficulties we face, but I'm afraid a lot comes down to dealing with imperfect people, and there isn't much of a cure for that.

Author:	Dave Crosby [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
I saw the commercial run, and to be honest, there were about 16 of us who sat transfixed during the (60 second?) spot. It's the same core reason that while I LIKE just about anything train related, I'm always moved by the operating steam locomotive. Massive, powerful and designed with a pen and paper. It's far outlasted its intended lifespan and has often been brought back to life often through sheer dedication. I took a female friend of mine to see the 3985 romp across Missouri last year. Not a railfan at all, I explained to her why I would travel halfway across the country to see this thing. After explaining that to her and then seeing the challenger roar by us at 60+, she was blown away and spent the rest of the day taking cell phone video of it to show people back home. It seems that the average consumer wants three things: Faster, Easier, Cheaper. We even import steam engines from China for those reasons. The restored steam engine (or early diesel, or pullman car or...) is the polar opposite of that. It represents pure greatness in both our past and in our future. It says we have and continue to do great things. Dave

Author:	Dave [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
I agree, Mitch - I once got into an argument when accosted by a redneck about my driving a foreign Subaru - built by American workers in Gary, Indiana - instead of an American truck like his Ford, built in Guadalajara, Mexico. People from all over the globe own bits and pieces of all our corporations stocks. I'm more concerned about what companies employ ctizens of my country than what city the home office might be in. dave

Author:	RCD [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
Newriver400 wrote: Amen! Yes, American workers cost more to employee, but the productivity of the American worker is also head and shoulders above the competition, so the labor cost is offset through increased productivity. What American heavy industry suffers from is NIMBYs, tree huggers, high-taxing, big-spending politicians and the weight of regulations that grows literally by the minute - from ADA to EPA to FRA to IRS to OSHA, our government is regulating us into oblivion. Not only does all of this regulation increase the cost of doing business tremendously and create whole cottage industries for regulatory compliance (crony capitalism at its best), it severely hampers competition and creates artificial barriers to market entry; thus costing society untold amounts economic benefit and efficiency. Even if we take away all the regulations are Americans going to work for 15 hours a day making $20 a week? I would think being on a Railway preservation forum you would know your history. And insulting the ADA, I know some members of this forum who benefit from that, but hey shouldn't we let business say hey it's not cost effective to cater to the handicap let them fend for themselves? The FRA, Should we let the railroads put the public and it's workers in danger to save a few dollars. The EPA, well I guess if you think it is okay to have river catching on fire because they are so polluted. Learn a little history before making broad and ignorant generalizations.

Author:	robertmacdowell [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
pm-man wrote: The best damn line was "imported from Detroit." Friggin' awesome. I may not be a big fan of Eminems music, but he got it right....we ain't pretty, we have taken some serious hits, we've made mistakes, and we'll probably make more. But we're still here.....even when all the naysayers seemingly wish we weren't. We didn't just make great things....we continue to make GREAT things...if people would choose to notice, and buy something because its made well, and becuase its a buck cheaper... Yes, I am always impressed with the sheer breadth of Michigan's manufacturing capability, especially prototype or one-off. Last Michigan trip I needed a stencil from .010 Mylar. All the laser-cutting shops I called could cut it out of 2" thick steel. The foreign automakers do a lot of their engineering there. I tried to get a stencil laser cut, and all I could find was shops who could laser-cut 2" thick steel plate. And of course the engineering brain-trust is considerable. I cannot imagine a better place to be a railway museum with money. God has a sick sense of humor. As for Eminem, I find he's more likeable if you think of him as a particularly subtle and complex humorist. He says as much. Contrast the Chrysler video with the video to his "Beautiful" song, which as we discussed here, was filmed in MC Depot, and other ruins. Oh, and when people talk about Detroit, they speak of Detroit proper. They show you devastation on Jefferson or Davison. BUT NOT on Big Beaver or Haggerty. That's because the suburbs are doing quite well, actually. Enough that, even with Detroit and Flint pulling down the average, Michigan is not doing as bad as California on hard statistics like employment. And California never really had the industrial base to begin with. Having seen plenty of both, I perceive the key difference between Michigan and California is attitude. California has the can-do spirit Michigan ought to have, and Michigan has the uneasy "We have no legitimate economic base" heebiejeebies that California ought to have. (Google has more market cap than Ford, what's with that?) It's really ALL about illusion, isn't it?

Author:	RDGRAILFAN [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
I do not post here very often but I am an avid reader. This topic struck a interesting point. We need to think what we are fighting and change it. The tax reform act of 1987 was the start of the decline manufacturing and capitol intense industries. That tax act opened up the door for the venture capitol firms to dismantle companies and take the tax write ( then sell the write off for a profit) off Since then we have added legislation on top of legislation that burdens our business that add cost and drive up costs. The industry of making money using money was born. example : In 1988 my employer ( profitable and cash rich) was purchased by in a Leveraged buyout, within 2 months we closed two plants that were shipping world wide, laid off 1,500 people, started production overseas, sold off two divisions. one year later were sold again for the name to an overseas company. WE went from 3,000 persons to less than 500 when the final end came. The LBO firm made a lot of money selling the parts of the company. Drive around your town and count the firms that are now gone and ask why. We need to carefully examine the tax, finance, and industry protection for American industries if we want to return to more than a services based economy. If we do not our children will be in a changed America serving burgers with a college degree. WE will not have the money to save anything if we do not stand up and fix certain things that need fixing. the money is almost gone out of America.

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Author:	robertmacdowell [ Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: “Americans are capable of making and saving great things
RCD wrote: Even if we take away all the regulations are Americans going to work for 15 hours a day making $20 a week? Don't have to. The world is running out of places where people will do that. Quick as they took that role, the Chinese are done with it. It got them out of the rice paddies, industrialization is a fait accompli, and they want cars and iPads and little houses made of ticky-tacky. In a real world example, the "game gold" market in 2006 was dominated by the Chinese. Now they are priced out of the market. The Chinese won't even play video games for $4/day. So you know, people talk of this job-drain like it's bottomless and will keep going on forever. No, it's hopped countries every 10 years or so, and we're running out of countries. Despite China's rap, it's REALLY in places like Indonesia right now. Where next? The Arabs don't want it, they have oil money. Burma? Africa? Not gonna happen, their governments are not stable. Nobody's going to invest there. Meanwhile the cost of container-ship fuel just keeps spiraling up. The "price of fuel" thing is a very big deal, it is the limiting factor in foreign industrialization, and remember America is far, far more efficient at converting BTU's to dollars, save for our tendency to drive SUV's to work. Get a nation of Chevy Volt's (or Voltburbans as needed) powered or offset by wind/solar, and we pretty much auto-win the world economy. And that's what the energy initiatives are all about. Obviously there's a place for rail there, and we should be all up on that.