Just read this over on railfan.net:

https://www.thetrain.com/grand-canyo...team-7275.html

Old news. Yes, they will be running occasional steam as shown.

Steve

Ten steam trips a year are better than none.

I have no problem with this group running diesel over steam because of the lower cost in fuel and other items like labor. If they need to increase profitability, they should.

But what I do resist is this group portraying their diesels as saving the planet over the use of steam. Sure there is more smoke with steam but does it have a negative impact on "the environment"? I would say no.

Does this help in their marketing? Maybe. But I would say it does not help the planet in any measureable way. Also, one wonders the economics of maintaining a steam locomotive for only 10 days of operation per year.

all the plants absorb the carbon emitted, a test was done and tree rings were thicker per year as an area was smothered in carbon dioxide. We just revert to thicker trees and bush.

You can get into all kinds of arguements on this one, but the other issue that they had raised before was the water consumption at the South Rim.

That's one arguement a steam locomotive can't win.

Considering where this was a couple years ago, it's a minor victory. They wouldn't be doing this much if the market wasn't requesting it.

I hope you're right. I was in Phoenix back in November and called the GCRR just to see if by chance steam might be running. I was not interested in traveling to Williams to see silver and gold diesels. I had been there before to see the Canyon.

The female ticket agent I spoke to gave me the story about steam not being environmentally friendly and that's why they were running only on special occasions in 2011. I let her know I thought that was total rubbish but I understood not running steam based on economic reasons.

Good grief!

I'll say one thing is for sure.... all the letter writing and talk in the world ain't gonna amount to a hill of beans unless the steam trips are well patronized.

Sure the runs are limited - 4 weekends of 8 mile round trips and 2 trips to the Canyon, but that's 10 more trips then there was after Xantera announced it was ending it's program a few years back.

Take note of the photographer's special on May 14th and 15th. Here's a way to not only get great photos, sunrise, sunset and night shots, but also support the steam program and those who run it. A sold out successful charter will help put our collective money where our mouths were a few years back. It could lead to repeat events, as well.

There are about a dozen seat we need to fill to make this happen:
http://www.lerroproductions.com/grandcanyoncharter.html

All proceeds benefit the railroad (and the photographers) as this is a not-for-profit venture.

/Mitch

I can go deeper why its not an issue not in a general sense, but it is a concern in cities, its why the IC electrified in Chicago, so much smoke downtown, now they are having arguments about diesels in the stations and clean air again.

We probably will not see steam on a massive scale before the end of steam, but if the future of steam goes on, like the ACE project tried to do, we need to keep the technology alive and active. Long live Steam!!

The business of this or that kind of motive power being "environmentally friendly" is getting to be an overworked joke. In railroad passenger service whether steam or diesel the tonnage being hauled is mostly equipment, the passenger load is usually a pretty small portion of the weight and has a relatively minor effect on fuel consumption. The big question is how much emissions (and what kind) are produced per occupied passenger seat mile and at what cost. I get to look at many studies of various equipment and unless you are dealing with a situation where the local highways are gridlocked, it is very difficult for railroad passenger equipment with a light passenger load to compete with a typical commuter bus, and in some cases with low ridership it isn't even competitive with the same number of people driving their own cars.

In many years of watching multi-million and even a few billion dollar passenger rail projects for public agencies I have yet to see anyone bid newly constructed steam locomotives as motive power. There is currently a $2.2 billion dollar commuter rail project under discussion in Massachusetts, and if steam had environmental and fuel efficiency advantages I would suspect somebody would bid that option because there is a lot of money to be made if it proved successful.

One of the options being studied for that application is electric locomotives, they would be powered in part by a local steam power plant. If that motive power is selected, we can drive over there in our cars and watch the smoke come out the stack. I suspect that is the closest thing to steam locomotives that is likely to happen in commuter rail any time soon. So be thankful for operations like GCRR and support them, you aren't likely to see new steam service in too many other places.

PC

Just got word that 2-8-2 #4960's time expires in June of 2011, but the railroad got a waiver to run her till September 30th, 2011.

This year's limited trips (4 weekend 8 mile round trips and 2 full length runs to the Canyon) may be your last chance to see former CB&Q #4960 run for a long, long time.

Keep in mind, Lerro Productions is running a special photographer's trip on May 14th and 15th including a night session. We are a few tickets shy of making this a go. In addition to the great photographs, the crew is eager to run #4960 while the opportunity exists and patronage, both in regards to the above runs and Lerro's charter, would go a long way towards putting our collective money where our mouths have been regarding the viability to keep steam alive at the Canyon.

This may be the last chance to ride and get some fantastic photo ops.

And a second chance to show Xanterra that if they run it, we'll patronize it.

We're a few tickets shy of making this not-for-profit endeavor a definite go.

http://www.lerroproductions.com/grandcanyoncharter.html

/Mitch