Since this topic has surfaced (again) in the NYC Hudson steam locomotive replica discussion string, I just thought we should give the subject its own discussion (again).

Your thoughts on this?

Is such an organization really needed?

Is one of the existing "national" organizations able to do the job? (I mean really QUALIFIED to do the job, not just thinking that they own the turf and deserve to be in charge).

What incentive would there be for groups to join and participate?

Would the likely result be a raid on the finances of the best organizations to support the poorer organizations?

Would the well managed and financially secure groups just tell the rest to take a hike?

There were already a number of posts on this subject in the NYC Hudson replica discussion, you might want to take a look at those as well.

PC

We've got TRAIN and ARM already, but there's not a very agressive agenda to advocate for our industry cooperatively coming from either one. If we need such action, seems building from that base is sensible.

I'd like to see a specific set of justifications and goals before we start designing a new organization so we don't start solving problems that might or might not exist in structures that might or might not be appropriate.

Should we work with each other to make our plans interact rationally and play well with each other and not run with scissors? Sure.......but that needs to emerge from a mature interaction of the organizational leaders involved working from a POV of everybody getting stronger through cooperation, rather than from an outside organization.

dave

A national historic preservation lottery, something like Britain has, would be the logical thought in my mind. In this manner, people who are going to throw money at impossible odds are carrying the impossibility rather than the organizations seeking to preserve American heritage. I'd add the caveat that such funds should be directed to projects with a renovation cost estimate of over one million dollars. Petitioning congress to enact such legislation takes it off the back of the national treasury.

Since we have ARM and Train, maybe the better question is what do we expect from a National Organization…

ARM has been good at advocating for railroad museums among national museum associations… We now have a set of recommended practices, which would allow a dialogue if one of our number wants to be accredited. If a debate about government funds for museums were to come up, they would be in a good position to advocate for us.

ARM (and Train) at their conventions allow us a gathering place... to discuss mutual issues, and look for parts and places to cooperate... To play well together.

Train has been at the forefront of the debate over how to regulate steam. Most groups will come under some level of federal or state regulatory scrutiny… and we need Train to continue to advocate for rules that are reasonable in a museum or tourist environment.

So, we have groups advocating for us on national issues…

I believe some of the preservationist think a national organization would be the solution to their funding issues… finding and granting money to allow local museums to follow their passions…

I don’t think that that is a very reasonable dream… There just isn’t a big bucket of money waiting for a national railroad preservation alliance to come get it… Anyone who occasionally reads a newspaper will know that there is no government money for most of our projects and will likely be less in the future.

Our big government owned museums are finding difficulty in this era of government cost cutting… The California State budget is a mess, and while the California State Railroad Museum has held on, we are seeing cuts that threatened their preserved Sierra Railroad shops and excursion trains, and I fear for the funds marked for the museum’s expansion. The Nevada State Railroad Museum is threatened with closure (smart money says they won’t be closed, but will see draconian cuts.) The Pennsylvania Railroad museum went through a significant staff cut back a few years ago… Anyone who follows the Cumbres and Toltec (co owned by two states, Colorado and New Mexico) would see a constant issue with limited and slow state support (although Colorado has a state sponsored Historic grant process)

So, if we had a national funding organization, we wouldn’t expect any money from the government, so money would have to come from either big donors or from us… There are not many big donors… so that leaves us… and ask yourself, if given the option of giving $100.00 to your local organization, or to a national organization, which would you give it to? NRHS does have a annual granting program, so such a thing exists… they give away between $30,000 and $40,000 a year, with a $5,000 maximum grant… Hardly big money, but really a really nice aid for small volunteer groups (how many were aware of the program… if you are not you are likely not ready to compete for grants )

And, I suspect that many of our groups are not in a position to spend large sums of money well, if we had them.

Groups that are successful in funding large projects, have done home work to allow them to identify and reach out to funders… and that process of doing the home work has lead them to develop good plans, general plans for their sites, specific planning for each project.

Most of the railroad museums are volunteer groups, with volunteer management. Using volunteers means that we do great things with relatively little money… but can make good planning difficult.

The museums that have matured, with good planning, are finding money.

I suggest that everyone take a look at both the ARM and TRAIN websites. Keep an eye on what happens at next week's combined board meeting in French Lick, IN. There are some initiatives underway that will reshape the vision of preserving our railway heritage.

G. Mark
Director, ARM and TRAIN

ARM and TRAIN have realized this and have begun assessing how to better approach things cohesively and on a national level. I seem to recall a great deal of conversation about this between the two already, starting with joint annual meetings and publications.

ARM's Winter Quarterly last year dealt with these developments head on:
http://www.railwaymuseums.org/Static/documents/RMQWinter2010_000.pdf

One would hope that a "national" front organization would provide some useful services to its members in areas that they may not have the local expertise to be able to support, such as:

Competent guidance in dealing with legulatory compliance issues.

Assistance in arranging and insuring shipment of equipment, by rail or on the highway, and in making it compliant with carriers requirements for acceptance.

Information and advice on arranging publicity for events and a coordinated effort to "get the word out" so the general public will know your organizations exist.

A national directory of sources for grant funds and requirements to qualify for them.

These are just a few items that come to mind immediately, please continue to add to the list.

PC

I might add "identification and coordination of resources" to my previous list.

Frankly the NMRA usually does a better job in that area than any organization in the railroad history or railroad preservation fields presently does. There might be some lessons to learn from them.

PC

Two thoughts about ARM, TRAIN and the Hankey article: about time, since we've been talking about this stuff on this forum for several years now, and I still see nothing agressive about the advocacy such as is being sort of talked around. Perhaps the idea has yet to be defined and developed?

IF we as an industry are going to pursue a national identity, let it please not be a halfhearted semieffort. lack of commitment squared is less than simple lack of commitment.

dave

Frankly,I think it's time we go for broke...if we want to see steam survive beyond our lifetime,we need to move forward and get EVERYBODY on the same page. Some may not like it from an ego point of view,but for the survival of the industry,we need to adapt...and move aggressively forward. How do we do that? How do we get everyone on board? How do we keep the railroads interested and involved? The answers to those questions need to be answered, formulate a battle plan,and march forth.

For those who haven't heard, ARM and TRAIN combined their publications in mid-2010. Starting with the Spring meeting in French Lick, all annual conferences are now jointly held. TRAIN has hired the same organization management firm that ARM already uses. As Mark Ray said in his comment, stay tuned and see what happens.

One of the biggest ongoing problems for railway preservation and railroad history organizations, and one that might be at least partially addressed by help from a national group, is the publicizing of their events. Frankly, there are a lot of groups in the hobby and the industry that just can't get the word out effectively to people outside of their own property's fence. All the dedicated volunteer and staff effort available can be effectively wasted if the general public is not informed of what an organization has to offer and what events they are hosting. It seem as if some shared advice and guidance from people who have reasonable experience in arranging publicity for events would go a long way toward improving the situation.

PC

"One of the biggest ongoing problems for railway preservation and railroad history organizations, and one that might be at least partially addressed by help from a national group, is the publicizing of their events"

At a minimum, there is a need is to avoid scheduling conflicts of major events....

For a couple of years, NRHS has been distributing a planning calendar out by E-mail

To get on the list -- send a message to:

RHICalendar@nrhs.com

Bob H