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Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
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Author:  timken2626 [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
I recently acquired a really cool photo of Northern Pacific's A-1 Class Northern, #2626, otherwise known as the Timken. It is on display in Portland, Oregon sometime in the spring or summer of 1933, shortly after the NP bought the locomotive.

The 1st two cars are NP, but... that 3rd one has me stumped! It's an odd shape, especially for 1933, and with a paint scheme I don't recognize. Admittedly, my area of expertise is NP steam not passenger equipment. I'd really like to know what railroad's car it is and what colors it was painted!

Image

If you are not familiar with the Timken, she was built to demonstrate to the railroads the advantages of roller bearings. Conservative as they were/are, railroad management even refused when Timken Bearing Co. offered to install for free, a set of their bearing on an existing engine. So they built the Four Aces, #1111 to demonstrate the advantages. She toured the country, operating on 17 roads, east to west. At the end of the test period, the NP bought her. Unfortunately, this very historic engine was scrapped at the South Tacoma Shops in 1958.

Steve
Author:  weekendrailroader [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
It has lots of vertical windows all close together, the roof is the same height as the heavyweights in front of it, and the roof extends almost all the way to the sides of the car before sharply dipping down. I'd say that the car is a "modernized heavyweight". The trucks are probably still the same old six wheel style, but an air duct has probably been added either in the clerestory inside the car (hidden by a false ceiling), or on either side of the clerestory on the outside of the car (hidden by the false roof). Making these modifications to a car would help it match better with the new passenger cars, without the railroad having to buy all new cars.

It looks like the the next car in the train has received a similar treatment. Just look and see how the the clerestory roof is gone.
Author:  timken2626 [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
To me, it seems a bit shorter than the car in front, although the straight sides go higher. It also seem as if the car beyond has a more rounded contour and is a bit taller, possibly this one is an NP car that has been "streamlined". But, the car in question seems more boxy and a bit shorter. I don't think NP, SP&S, or GN had anything like this. Since it's in Portland, could it be something from the SP?

Here's a bit more detail, it amazes me how much detail there is, as it's scanned from a print that's only 2 3/4" x 4 1/4", no doubt a contact print.

Image

One friend thought the paint scheme looked a bit like B&O, couldn't prove it by me!

Thanks for looking.

Steve
Author:  weekendrailroader [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
Now that you mention the height difference, I think you're right. The car furthest from the camera looks to be a modernized car, but the car in question is different. Guess I'll have to keep looking...
Author:  Brian Norden [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
The mystery car appears to be a coach or chair car both by window styles and place in the train. It might be an early try (or trial) at modernizing NP passenger equipment.

There is a Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association. Maybe that group can help identify the car, etc.
Author:  railfan44 [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
Two things about the picture make me think the train is not a scheduled train. First, it is not in Portland Union Station (opened 1896). Second, the baggage car and especially RPO would make it a long-distance train. NP ran no long-distance trains to Portland, only trains from Seattle and local points. The SP&S brought its Minneapolis/Chicago trains in from Spokane.

Why was it on display? The viewers are not the general public: there are no children, maybe two teenages, and mostly men. So it's some sort of business show?

Timken is a Canton, OH company.

If the RPO were not there, I'd guess it is a special train and the car in question from an east coast railroad that Timken leased or possibly one of their corporate cars. Note, it has stuff on its roof.

What is the RPO doing there killing time? Does it have Timken roller bearings even though it has truss rods?
Author:  timken2626 [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
As I noted above, If you are not familiar with the Timken, she was built to demonstrate to the railroads the advantages of roller bearings. Conservative as they were/are, railroad management even refused when Timken Bearing Co. offered to install for free, a set of their bearing on an existing engine. So they built the Four Aces, #1111 to demonstrate the advantages. She toured the country, operating on 17 roads, east to west. At the end of the test period, the NP bought her. Unfortunately, this very historic engine was scrapped at the South Tacoma Shops in 1958.

The NP showed her off at various locations, just after the purchase. I wonder if they ran her on the NCL and split the train at Pasco, and took her down the SP&S to show her off in Portland? I think the display location is near the freight house. One catch, did Portland have any coal facilities? I know in later years all NP power running to Portland was oil, as no coal was available there.

Steve
Author:  Joe Magruder [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
What about the woman up by the pilot wheels talking on her cell phone?
Author:  Termite7 [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
It seems to me that 1933 was real early to be "modernizing" equipment.

Had they even started putting AC on cars at that point?

What other modern concept (besides roller bearings) might they have been demonstrating in 1933?

T7
Author:  Aarne H. Frobom [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
I'm pretty sure Pullman mechanical air-conditioning was in use by 1933, and probably ice air as well. The fourth car in the train looks like a conventional installation of air-conditioning ducts on a heavyweight car.

But the third car is indeed a stumper. I can't tell if there's a faint line in the photo at the point where the joint ought to be between the letterboard and the roof shoulder. My guess is that this is an early experiment with roof-mounted air conditioning ducts. It looks like there might be some sort of odd hatch arrangement on top, too, where an evaporator might be mounted. I don't see any big ice boxes.

The two-colored paint scheme is another head-scratcher.

- Aarne Frobom
Author:  mikefrommontana [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
I would guess that the car is either owned or leased by Timken--perhaps that might point up something useful to that end. Any experimental equipment designed by Pullman in that era?

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT
Author:  Newriver400 [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
mikefrommontana wrote:
I would guess that the car is either owned or leased by Timken--perhaps that might point up something useful to that end. Any experimental equipment designed by Pullman in that era?

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT


Wouldn't think so, as this photo was taken a few years after the Four Aces became NP 2626 and is of an NP event, not a Timken display. Can't figure anything out about the car, though. Looks like a commuter car of some sort, so not sure why it's in an NP consist.
Author:  ctjacks [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
It looks to me like a Reading MU car - possibly, did Timken put rollers under a car and bring it west for a display?
Author:  mikefrommontana [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
The answer is: Surprise! A rather unremarked class of experimental NP cars, from a construction lot of 6 (4 NP, 2 CB&Q). From the Passenger Car List (since that's what they do best over there):

c.
Re: Trying to identify an mystery coach-circa 1933
Posted by: "John M. Fiscella" profirst@compuserve.com jmf1944
Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:44 am (PDT)


I believe that flat-topped coach is a NP "semi-streamlined" De Luxe
coach, built by Pullman in March 1935, Plan 7360, Lot 6466. 6 cars were
delivered, 4 to NP, 2 to CBQ. This was the same generation car as the
American Flyer cars built by O-B for New Haven, even sharing the same
//41-E trucks and same height, but 2' shorter. Photos of this type car
can be seen in:
38 - W.D.Randall and W.M.Ross, The Official Pullman-Standard Library,
Vol.3, Railway Production Classics (1987) (page 106)
64 - J.F.Strauss, Jr., Northern Pacific Pictorial Volume Four, Four
Ways West Publications (2000) (page 80).

John Fiscella


Will try to find pictures of this elusive class.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT
Author:  timken2626 [ Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mystery Passenger Car behind NP 2626 in 1933
OK! That's great to know. This puts the photo in a pretty tight time space, as the May 1935 shopping saw a new stack and enlarged sand dome. So, when were the cars actually delivered? Any chance of finding out what colors they were delivered in?

Steve
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