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Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
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Author:  Loco112 [ Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
This is a brake system exercise for you brake gurus the forum.

This #6 Distributing valve came with the 6ET brake system, and WABCO (Westinghouse Air Brake Company) said way back in about 1910 that; "the #6 Distributing valve replaces the; triple valve, reducing valves, feed valves and safety valve that were used in the previous "high speed" and "freight brake" schedules".

The need is to figure out how to replace, or "fake" a #6 Distributing valve in the 6ET brake system by using the previous schedules assorted parts and the K-1 triple valve (that has Quick release, charge and service features) that came along in the 1930's and that ever RR today seems to have many tons of in stock.

The rules are simple, you can not change the brake systems operating feel and characteristics, and the brake valves used on this "virtual" brake system will be the same H-6 and S-6 that were supplied with the 6-ET and 8ET schedules. You can use as many of the following parts that you need; feed valve, reducing valve, safety valve, check valve, double check valves, K-1 Triple valves, a driver brake reservoir and one application reservoir (both the same size as those built into the #6 Distribution valve), and any other reservoirs that you need, piping and smaller reservoirs are also allowed. You can preform any modifications, port plugging, part removal and blanking off that is needed on the K-1 triple valves to get this working perfectly.

So, dig out your old WABCO manuals and help us by figuring out how to get around using those old #6 Distributing valves.

Good luck!
Author:  Gord M [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
The question to me is what is the ultimate goal of the excersize? Is it driven by lack of availabilty of #6 distributing valves? There are certainly a number of functionally similar #14 (14EL) distributing valves out there that likely could be adapted if #6's couldn't be found. #14 could be found on most early Alco switchers, GE (and other) industrial locos and switchers as well as electric interurban and switching locos.

Historicaly, 6ET was introduced in 1905 as an update of schedule #5. The K triples were also introduced in 1905.

Gord McOuat
Master Mechanic
OERHA / Halton County Radial Ry.
Author:  Dave [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
I'm kind of interested, too.....why set out to kludge if you don't have to?

dave
Author:  SZuiderveen [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
Dave wrote:
I'm kind of interested, too.....why set out to kludge if you don't have to?

dave


I am going to make a guess and go out on a limb here.

Loco112 has been doing a lot of research into narrow gage and what are known as "grand scale" trains, i.e. between 7 1/2" and 24" gage.

This sounds like an attempt to "breadboard" a #6 in miniature using stock pneumatic parts, such as Clippard. I wouldn't mind doing something similar myself for my 2 1/2" to 12" scale Shay and the train I am building for it.

Steve
Author:  Dave [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
Then just buy tractor trailer components off the shelf and they will do fine.

dave
Author:  Jdelhaye [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
Gord M wrote:
The question to me is what is the ultimate goal of the excersize? Is it driven by lack of availabilty of #6 distributing valves? There are certainly a number of functionally similar #14 (14EL) distributing valves out there that likely could be adapted if #6's couldn't be found. #14 could be found on most early Alco switchers, GE (and other) industrial locos and switchers as well as electric interurban and switching locos.

Historicaly, 6ET was introduced in 1905 as an update of schedule #5. The K triples were also introduced in 1905.

Gord McOuat
Master Mechanic
OERHA / Halton County Radial Ry.


Bit of trivia: A single ended (1 brake stand) 14EL system uses a #6 distributing valve.

The #14 distributing valve (also used on double ended #6 systems) has slightly different characteristics to compensate for the additional volume of the piping of a system with 2 brakestands.

Jeff
Author:  Loco112 [ Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
Quote:
Is it driven by lack of availability of #6 distributing valves
Yes, and the high cost and complexity to pattern up and produce a new #6 is a large sum, and based on what WABCO said back in about 1915 its not necessary to use the #6. (And I also want to build all the old parts except the #6 dist. valve for my grand scale railroad).

If you look at the old "High speed" and "freight brake" schedules, (pre-6ET) you'll see that there was only; triple valves, checks, reducing valves and feed valves to do the work that the #6 did in the ^et release. It should be straight forward to mimic it, if I can get the piping correct and tame the "quick" features on one of the K-1 valves, and maybe use one K-1 with the "quick" features as is. I'm not sure about the parts, but I thought you guys would enjoy trying to figure it out.

The #6 is really scarce (and expensive), while the K-1 triple valve numbers into the thousands, and every tourist RR has a few, and a few RR's have hundreds of them. So why recreate the #6 Distribution valve, when all the inexpensive components can be put together to mimic it, (and do all the same functions, except for one or two that are not necessary). The old components are plentiful and inexpensive, so I want to use all the old parts to mimic it, and its should be possible based on what WABCO says.

The tractor trailer parts are opposites in function and way too sensitive, and the ports are all too small to be used on RR equipment.

14EL uses a #6KR distrution valve, its a littel different. It is based on the same valve casting, but it has different slides and bolt on parts, and its rare now also.
Author:  Brian Norden [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
Didn't Wabco produce an updated version of the #6 Distributing Valve using diaphragms and o-rings? I recall having the application of one of these on a tourist steam engine being pointed out to me about 20 years ago.

These may have been produced for application on diesels or for foreign sales. It bolted up onto the same pipe bracket.
Author:  Mike Tillger [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
Yes, It was known as a 6N. It was also available in a setup that featured a 26C automatic with an SA26 independent known as schedule 26NL. It was available on new diesels and was a common update when they received heavy overhauls.
Mike Tillger
Author:  Dave [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
Too small? Just how grand is your grand scale?

Somewhere I have a book on the old Combination Straight and Automatic Brake with the G train brake valve and the S independent brake valve, if i could lay hands on it.

dave
Author:  Loco112 [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
Quote:
Too small? Just how grand is your grand scale?


Its "Grand".

Well my personal project is for a dual gauge layout of about two miles in length with the two gauges being 15" and 24". The 15" is for guests mostly, so I can have meets with some guests locomotives. A friend of mine is seriously considering building a two-footer in 7.5/12 scale for that gauge, and I might build one at the same time as he to split the pattern costs. That loco will be the Mysore/Scindia 2' gauge 2-8-2 . For my 24" gauge I'm building 8/12 scale replicas of three-footers. That scale is just big enough to ride "in, and not just "on". The loco will be the a smaller prototype, and I'm thinking about the Baldwin 4-4-0, 8-18C (SONOMA & EUREKA) for a steamer (that will probably only run twice a year, on wood) and the #50 D&RGW Davenport for a "turn the key and go" locomotive. The rollingstock might be just; a steel frame C&S Box, a couple of steel C&S flats and Gon, an EBT hopper or two, and a couple of cabeese, and maybe a few other pieces at the rate of one or two a year, just enough to; have fun with, camp out on the ROW with and haul some equipment around my farm with. Just incase you were wondering, the track is the expensive part!

I hope to get around to building a larger Mikado (like the; Cia Agricola #152 with the Caprotti valve gear), after I get the other equipment built. The #152 would be the last one and I doubt it would run except for twice a year like the 8-18C, unless I can find a park concession to operate it on. The Davenport will run every weekend with the train!
Author:  Dave [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
Very interesting.........and ambitious. Best wishes.

dave
Author:  Loco112 [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
Does anyone have a photo or sketch/drawing of the; 6N Distributing valve?

What year was that released?
Author:  Howard P. [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
You might be well-advised to keep the gage to 23 3/4 inches; see CFR 49 Parts 200-250.

Your project sounds quite interesting and I wish you much success with it.

Howard P.

Insular, NY
Author:  Dave [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Faking a WABCO #6 Distributing valve in a 6ET system
600 MM - a standard European and Asian gage, with a lot of off the shelf stuff available. Comes down to about 23 5/8 more or less, and you could run on 24" tracks as a visitor.

dave
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