A recent thread brought up the Olympia, the Navy battle cruiser which lead the fleet into Manila Bay during the Spanish American War.

Built in San Francisco, now in "Preserved" in Philadelphia... or not preserved...

A large complex industrial artifact... costly to maintain...

The preservation is not keeping up... the group holding the artifact is feeling overwhelmed.

They are considering sinking the now roughly 120 year old ship as a reef... As preservation as compared to scrapping...

http://www.oldsaltblog.com/2010/05/23/u ... cial-reef/

So, how can we expect to save the random old locomotive or car, if we can't save Dewey's flag ship...

One thing to take heart in is that rail projects have two advantages.

The first is that they are typically much smaller and less complex than a large ship, though still much larger (and expensive!) than something like an old car or even a house.

The second is that unlike most ships, and warships in particular, properly used rail equipment can be operated to generate revenue.

Sadly, the difficulties in all forms of preservation revolve around the low priority history is generally given in our society; a sometimes extreme worship of just accumulating money (with its accompanying emphasis of doing too many things cheaply as opposed to doing them well) doesn't help matters.

In this particular case, we also had problems with a management that was rottenly corrupt.

Randy,
This is a really good question! For those not familiar with my cousin's flagship, it led the US into a world power, and is as significant as the USS Constitution (Old Ironsides).
Fortunately, this is an old article, and I do believe efforts are underway to preserve the ship. Sinking it would be criminal--go to the ship's site and see how nice the original steam plant is and all the work already done. This is not a derelict wreck, but it does need major hull restoration/replacement of plates--just like a locomotive boiler, ship hulls are subject to corrosion and become dangerous after so much time.
NOW, back to the question of saving stuff. Why is that Sacramento (the city) can raise $5million in pledges in a few weeks to keep a basketball team in town, but we can't raise a tenth of that kind of money to save historic pieces???
Today's society values fame and "stars" far more than stuff of substance.

I agree that many of our rail projects are smaller... So, savable by an idividual or small group.

But Olympia is of national importance... An icon

Are any railroad preservation projects an icon of this stature... We think them safe... but is anything...

I suspect a steam locomotive might make a good reef as well...

Randy,

Nothing is completely safe. This weekend I was able to experience the full scale destruction of railroad equipment in Montana that was doomed by indifference and the apparent common quality that some viewed the artifacts to be. Pieces that will never be built again, or would be an expensive nightmare to reproduce are now gone forever when a very minor effort could have saved the majority of the artifacts. Arguable some of it was not a major loss, but a good deal of it was. Currently, two groups I'm involved with are now racing the clock to preserve what we still can from the oblivion of lost heritage. Ironically asbestos was the only thing that granted a reprisal from the flames of destruction for two wooden treasures.

No one person can label the value of an artifact, and posterity seems to be the key. People need to genuinely enjoy something to see the value of it's preservation. Sometimes that only requires something to be "cool" or "pretty", but sometimes it takes a lot more than that, especially with bigger pieces like the Olympia. The "Olympia" is indeed an icon, but the vast majority of Americans don't know that. Until this situation changes, preserving our national heritage will remain a more daunting challenge than finding the funds for hull repairs. To save something, it must be relevant and appealing.

Taylor

I wonder if if the Olympia could be moved to battleship cove?

The answer is NO. Olympia would sink along the way. It could be placed on a specialized ship, like the one that brought the USS Cole home from Yemen, but it's gonna cost big bucks. Moving it to Fall River doesn't fix her problems. She'd still need an expensive drydock and yard period.

What Olympia needs, is to get out of the water and stay out. As I have mentioned before, the USS Texas is to be hauled out and placed permantly in a drydock-like berth by the state of Texas. Visitors will be able to walk around her and see her as folks do in Chicago with the U-505.

With regard to "Olympia", it's interesting the Navy hasn't stepped in, as they claim to hold title to all lost and recovered naval aircraft from the seas. Furthermore, the U.S.S. "Maine" is celebrated annually in Bangor, where her bow shield is displayed in a public park. Within the past decade, iirc, deep sea cameras sought out the sunken wreckage of the "Maine", and photo-documented it.

I think we have reached a point where restoring something as large and complex as a steam ship may be financially impossible. Reading about these grand ships is one thing...but when you stand along side one and contemplate the many, many square feet of steel that all needs sanding, wire-brushing, priming, painting...then you can see that it quickly adds up. And by the time that task is finished...it needs to be redone. And that is just paint...imagine the large expanse of steel below the waterline that is rusting away as we speak. It will need to be sister-plated in dry-dock, which is another complex operation.

No matter how important it may be, at some point you have to step back and look at our priorities. With 13 million souls unemployed...$4 a gallon gas...crumbling bridges...a clammering for high-speed rail...well...you get the point. We may soon see a day when there are no remaining ships of that era. And that will be a sad day indeed.

To pipe her out of service and to lay her respectifully on a reef may seem short sighted but...it would become a haven for recreational divers who would respectfully visit her for many more generations to come. Better then seeing her cut up to
become Chevy Volts?

T7

Some historic boats do operate with paying passengers.
When someone's heirs threatened to obtain a judgement against the ship, the Navy claimed that they still owned it, and would cancel the agreement or lease with the Cruiser Olympia Association. On the other hand, the Navy or the U.S. Government did sell the San Diego after it sank off Long Island, thus muddying the legal status.

Yes, this project would be expensive. But the economy is not all "gloom and doom". Bank of America made 1.7 Billion (yes Billion) in profits during the first quarter of 2011. Corporations routinely spend millions to be able to paint their name on a baseball stadium. Can't we find one or two to help out causes like this?

Seems like you that if you find the right corporate sponsors, you could save some of these artifacts. If it means calling it the BofA Ship Museum, well that's a small price to pay.

The Olympia is very near and dear to my heart. I live not far from her and have seen her a number of times, most recently I visited her last fall with my son. She is without a doubt the most amazing floating museum ship I have ever set foot upon. Her interior, mechanical equipment, and topside are in pristine condition. Sinking her because money is not available to fix her hull would be comparable to burning down Mt. Vernon because there is no money to fix it's roof. If you live anywhere within striking distance you should go see her as soon as possible.

From articles I have read, the Olympia is not owned by the Navy. The New Jersey and many of the other battleships still are. Intrepid is not owned by the Navy either. Why? Probably has something to do with the fascination for the battleship. Remember that the New Jersey, and Missouri were reactivated for duty in Viet Nam and the Persian Gulf.

And there is an energetic move afoot to save this historic vessel.

And as stated earlier and in other threads, the Olympia is in danger of sinking right where she is. She cannot be moved as she is. So if she is to be sunk as a reef, who would pay to make temporary repairs to get her out to sea to be sunk?

Later!
Mr. Ed

Taylor's comments about indifference hit the nail on the head. But in an era when the Spanish-American War is at best a footnote in high school history class, with a heavy layer of blame cast at Rooseveltian jingoism even though nuanced historical assesssments may be difficult to comprehend at that age, what do you expect?

Can a regard for what we consider to be historically significant really be permanently indoctrinated anyway? The alarm over the Olympia among folks like us, aside from its mechanical interest, is perhaps more rooted in vestigal social attitudes toward Dewey and the Great White Fleet that we learned from grandparents, or more likely as a result of our interest in other remnants of that era generally.

Likewise, when the WWII generation is gone for good, watch the deterioration/let's just sink it cycle move on to the likes of the Iowa, the Missouri, etc. I recently listened to a news item on NPR about the closure of the James Stewart Museum in the Whereverville he grew up in. Visitor numbers had dropped precipitously, because practically nobody under 40 knows who he was anymore.

The relationship of all this to railroad preservation raises some interesting points. Yes, we must remain relevant and interesting. But is the solution to go out and acquire F40s and Amfleet coaches (or BART cars) because they're what today's young people grew up with and will remember? If this is the solution, what becomes of our 4-4-0s and wooden coaches, or heavyweight Pullmans? For that matter, what becomes of the said F40s, Amfleet coaches and BART cars when that generation ages and passes from the scene?

It's curious that we don't hear about art museums folding up because not enough young people appreciate Renoir, nor having to engage in wholesale shifts in their collecting for the sake of relevancy.

However, wholesale discarding of traditional culture in favor of what appeals to the younger crowd does seem to be a tactic in vogue within certain religious denominations these days. Having chosen that path to relevancy, it will be interesting to see what they're left with in another generation.

Similar to what Mount Royal has suggested, out of the water, take a look at the Lake Champlain steamer Ticonderoga, out of the water and two (!) miles inland at Shelburne. The Olympia is larger and heavier, of course, but the technology is there, proven, and has been around for fifty years or so. What is missing is the money, sadly-