We have both a bridge pit and walled pit. Someone's regs required that we install a removable railing system to prevent falling into the pit.
Wesley
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| Inpection pits https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31348 |
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| Author: | S Bartlett [ Sun May 08, 2011 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Inpection pits |
We are planning a carbarn and would like to have an inspection pit. Our building inspector does not have problem with our plan, but folks keep telling us that pits are illegal. Anyone have any solid information on this? I can see why they might have decided that pits in auto garages are unsafe, since you can lift an auto, but surely pits are allowed for railroad operations. We are in Massachusetts, so specific, current (existing pits aren't important, they might be grandfathered) information about Mass would be most helpful, but maybe this is an OSHA regulation? I know about putting up stanchions, and/or covers to make them safer. Thanks, |
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| Author: | jasonsobczynski [ Sun May 08, 2011 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
Pits are legal, they need only be properly engineered. Age of steam roundhouse under construction http://www.ageofsteamroundhouse.com/Album_27.html |
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| Author: | gmray [ Sun May 08, 2011 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
Look into your state's fall protection requirements. The depth of most inspection pits exceeds the height limit for fall protection requirements. The fix is usually either handrails or covers. |
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| Author: | Mike Tillger [ Sun May 08, 2011 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
Most of the OSHA regs regarding pits can be found here: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owasrch.search_form?p_doc_type=STANDARDS&p_toc_level=1&p_keyvalue=1910 Look under:1910 Subpart D - Walking-Working Surfaces You wil need to consult the National Electrical Code for electrical requirements as pits generally are regarded as hazardous/explosive environments by most codes. Explosive type gases tend to be heavier than air and collect in pits. You also may want to provide for spill protection, i.e that the oil collected from some bearing box that accidentally gets spilled does not end up in a drain leading to some stream or public sewer. Mike Tillger |
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| Author: | BSOR Patarak [ Sun May 08, 2011 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
For our locomotive pit, it was required to have two "exits" or stairs so that you could never get trapped in one end of the pit. You may also be required to have fresh air ventilation into the pit. Many combustible gas fumes are heavy and will collect in the pit. There may be a requirement for a "gas" detector that shuts off any power in the pit to cut electrical sparks (should you include lighting/plugs into the pit). You'll need vapor/moisture tight fittings on any conduit/fixtures installed in the pit. I do recommend adding in plenty of light while you are designing it. For the cover or railings around our pit, we used pipe set in the surrounding concrete floor about 6 foot on centers. We then made a pipe fence with chain that would fit back in the pipes in the floor so they were removable while working. Most of the time a locomotive is over the pit so it didn't need to be secured unless it was left open. Hope this helps, Pat Connors BSOR |
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| Author: | buzz_morris [ Sun May 08, 2011 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
I’m no pit expert but the big quickie lube chain I go to seems to have an elaborate pit designed to meet more safety than I thought was necessary. Take a look there to get an idea of what is required. More importantly get a structural engineer to sign off on designing just how much weight the rails above will support. You don’t want to build something that’s not rated to hold up what you need to work on. |
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| Author: | Matt Bumgarner [ Sun May 08, 2011 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
Locally, we have a shortline railroad called the Caldwell County (CWCY) railroad, which operates the 20 mile northern-most remnant of the Carolina & North-Western Railway. The railroad currently stores its locomotives at the site which used to be the shops of the C&N-W (yes, I know CR&N, but it was always called C&N-W around here and in Southern Railway circles) Anyway, about 2-3 years ago the FRA told the CWCY they had to have an inspection pit. The railroad then took a backhoe and cleaned out a pit that had been filled nearly forty years ago when the C&N-W shops were razed. The steps into the pit and even the glass lenses on light fixtures in the pit were still intact! Matt Bumgarner |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun May 08, 2011 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
In a similar vein, I was able to locate the inspection pit and enginehouse for a railroad that had been built in 1871. The latest I was able to find evidence for its existence was a photo showing it in the distance around 1900. I was able, via that photo, to find its foundation in 1990. The pit was simply lined with large bricks or concrete-like blocks, and floored with bricks. I spent a day excavating that pit of its decades of compost; I was able to find cinders and ash in the bottom, but no artifacts to speak of. Still there, last I knew. |
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| Author: | Loco112 [ Sun May 08, 2011 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
The Sumpter Valley has a new pit that is not elaborately large but it will get the job done. Take a look about half way down this page; http://www.svry.com/news_2007.html There are three photos there. |
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| Author: | wesp [ Sun May 08, 2011 2:31 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits | ||
We have both a bridge pit and walled pit. Someone's regs required that we install a removable railing system to prevent falling into the pit. Wesley
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| Author: | RCD [ Sun May 08, 2011 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
Well here is the one at the Railroad Museum of New England 
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| Author: | crij [ Mon May 09, 2011 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
Sam, If someone is saying they are illegal in Mass for railroad usage, maybe you should point them to the MBTA's maintenance facility (South Boston IIRC) or the Providence & Worcester's Shop in Worcester, Ma. IIRC Guilford also has pits in Deerfield, Ma. Only thing they maybe able to claim would be grandfathered status, but I don't think that claim would work against laws created for safety reasons. If it the problem is fall height related than maybe you can create shallow pits (steam engine depth) like what we have at the Ct Eastern RR Museum, in Willimantic Ct. IIRC the depth ranges from 2.5 to 3 feet below the head of the rail, because of the sloped bottom. You will be duck walking and kneeling under your equipment, but it is better then laying on the ties. Rich C. |
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| Author: | Loco112 [ Mon May 09, 2011 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
Quote: like what we have at the Ct Eastern RR Museum, in Willimantic CT. IIRC the depth ranges from 2.5 to 3 feet below the head of the rail, because of the sloped bottom Looks just about right to me. Your hands will not often be too high above your head when you are working on the undercarriage parts. The "hands over your head & turning wrenches routine" really gets to burning after about 30 minutes! Maybe the ultimate pit would have differing depths with "Clearly marked: step ups and down in the pit, & separated by some kind of gates to keep you from stepping off or into a step face. |
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| Author: | Mount Royal [ Mon May 09, 2011 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
RMNE has shared its plans for the inspection pit with several groups/interested parties. Seeing as though you are in Mass, it wouldn't be a stretch to make a visit. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to arrange a shop tour. Howard P. would be the one to talk to. Good luck! |
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| Author: | kjohnson [ Mon May 09, 2011 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inpection pits |
Hi Sam, I don't quite understand myself how a pit can be illegal, but that is another issue. New rail facilities have been built at the MBTA in recent years, I would imagine Gilford has pit at the East Deerfiled yard, ect... A few considerations, as people have pointed out in previous posts; 1. Having a remove able railing around the pit is important (100%), and hand railing on all stairs. 2. Having clearance between the car and the railing (3 feet). 3. Stairs at each end that are accessable while the equipment is on the pit (I feel) is important, or at least two clear exits in case of an issue. 4. Good lighting 5. GFI's in all outlets 6. A way to kill the over head power (LOTO) in the barn itself over the pit. 7. Pit height is important consideration. Every one has an opinion, mine is at least 6 to 6.5 feet below the rail head. 8. Access to the equipment on the out side of the rail is just as important as directly underneath the cars. Our pits have a step up (approx 18") to access the equipment out side the rail. 9. Good drainage (sump pump, ect...) 10. Air hoses available on a reel, as well as drop lights. 11. A small table for light repairs 12. ADA accessablity Every museum needs a good pit, with all the volunteer labor, it is an essential to have one of these. Good luck, Karl Johnson Superintendent, Beach Yard (formally Geneva Shop) MUNI Ry |
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