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| Painting the sheet metal https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31454 |
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| Author: | Dave Wolven [ Wed May 25, 2011 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Painting the sheet metal |
I would like to hear how others feel about the amount of gloss used in painting the jacket and cab of a steam engine. Is high gloss too high? or should it be semi gloss, also what is correct for the air tanks? and item below the walk boards? Thanks Dave |
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| Author: | Ron Travis [ Wed May 25, 2011 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
I would use the highest gloss on the assumption that it is the most durable. |
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| Author: | crij [ Wed May 25, 2011 1:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
It all depends on your desire. If you are going for prototypical looks, then on the high wheel locomotives with the polished brass you would use high gloss, but if the engine was from the workhorse era of steam then (from the photos) it looks like they used the equivalent of a low luster or flat paint. Same thing would go for above and below the boiler. If you just want the longest life then a high quality gloss industrial grade paint would be the best, not sure if the gloss cutter additives effect life span. Don't forget the higher the gloss the more likely you will be up there cleaning her as every spec of dust, bird dropping and hand print will show, satin to low luster paint will hide all but the oil and grease streaks. Also gloss paints visually magnify all the dents and crinkles in the metal & wood work. Just my observations, Rich C. |
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| Author: | Ed Kapuscinski [ Wed May 25, 2011 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
What was used on the locomotive during it's period of historic significance. That's what you should do. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed May 25, 2011 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
Lead based industrial paints that are not only no longer available, but don't have the durability of modern coatings, Ed. No point exploring that path of thought. It doesn't matter what you use if it is in service, as it will get grimy and flat anyhow, as well it should. Wipe it down with WD40 or kerosene or diesel while it is hot to maintain some cleanliness and shininess. If on display, use a glass automotive paint or industrial coating as the gloss will make it fade more slowly by reflecting more light. As always, surface prep and a compatable primer and cover are key. dave |
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| Author: | Ed Kapuscinski [ Wed May 25, 2011 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
Dave wrote: Lead based industrial paints that are not only no longer available, but don't have the durability of modern coatings, Ed. No point exploring that path of thought. I'm not saying that it has to be the same coating, but that it should be as close as possible, especially in appearance. We're not making movie props, we're preserving historic artifacts, right? |
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| Author: | Frisco1522 [ Wed May 25, 2011 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
Any engine coming out of the shop always had a gloss coat on it. It just got dirty and weathered in service. |
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| Author: | W.L.Avis [ Wed May 25, 2011 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
Just don't use builder photos for a guide as they were frequently, but not always, either painted in undercoat or flat for the photographer. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed May 25, 2011 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
Do you care about photographers? One thing many of us found out the hard way back when PRR "7002" and 1223 were running on the main line: the high gloss of the paint on "7002" tended to throw off light meters by an f-stop or two, even with "automatic" exposure-control cameras, and especially with the railfan standard film of the time, the contrast-laden Kodachrome. You saw the same effect with extra-high-gloss black automobiles as well. I'd love the chance to re-do the exercise with digital SLR's today........... |
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| Author: | JohnHillier [ Wed May 25, 2011 7:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
We've painted both our locomotives within the last year, one with Sherwin Williams high grade (I forgot the name) and the other with Imron. It is extremely difficult to keep the engines shiny, especially if they tend to blow out all sorts of condensation and soot in the morning after sitting for awhile. If the engine is filthy, I will generally warm the cylinders and blow the smokebox residue out before washing the jacket. We will then use a soap and degreaser combination with soft brushes and cold water to clean the jacket. The cooler the jacket the easier it is to keep the soap from evaporating off and getting scum residue when the engine is hot. On occasion after all this, we have sprayed and wiped down the jacket with WD-40 or kerosene to give it extra shine. This was only for a photo shoot and the engine was not moving around. If it does, any cinder or dust particle will show up quickly by sticking to the shiny jacket, and if you wait too long to clean it again, you'll have to scrub for awhile to get the gummy layer of oil and trash off the paint. For the running gear, I've found that pressure washing with hot water and a light soap works best. It not only cleans off the brake dust, sand, and soot, but also keeps it from further damage to the bearings on the running gear and guides. A very nice way to clean the grease fittings before shooting the rods with grease. When all is done, a light coat of penetrating oil and a Scotch-brite pad or steel wool will do well to take off any rust or remaining residue, then wipe with some rags, and a final layer of WD-40 or similar left to coat the rods will leave a really nice shine in the sun and prevent surface rust. At any rate, it's a lot of work. |
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| Author: | Dave Wolven [ Thu May 26, 2011 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
Thanks to all who posted. We will take your thoughts into consideration when we start painting in late June. Dave Wolven VC2 at O.E.R.M. |
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| Author: | daylight4449 [ Fri May 27, 2011 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
Well, if I had to paint sheet metal, I'd suggest using a flat paint, and then polish it to give it some sort of shine. I'd guess using somethink like powder coat might work better, just add some sort of polish. |
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| Author: | Randy Hees [ Fri May 27, 2011 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
Historically, locomotives including the jacket (if the jacket was painted... Before 1920 or so as, most/many were some sort of planished iron (aka Russia iron or American iron, as well as various trade names)) were painted with glossy paint... linseed oil based paints were only available in gloss until about 1911... Later "jacket enamels" were glossy. Some locomotives receive special flat finish paint jobs for builder's photos, alternately flat finish spray was used, but in either case, they were either repainted or cleaned before leaving the factory gates... With the exception of some logger or industrial repaint railroad locomotives painted with glossy paint when in service. Once in service, some locos got quite filthy and appear flat, but under the crap there is glossy, or at least once glossy paint. In preservation, we need to research the history of the object being restored or repaired, then use similar finish to that used originally (not the original red lead primer with linseed oil dark olive, with varnish overcoat... But modern equivalent) As for the photographers... Get a grey card... So, short answer... Glossy |
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| Author: | robertmacdowell [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Painting the sheet metal |
The other question is how long you want the paint to last. Or, when do you want to paint it again? You want a paint that's impervious to heat and chemicals that operation and maintenance is hitting it with. For instance somebody likes to use WD40 as a wipedown agent, the paint should be impervious to that. That kind of chemical resistance is found in your 2-pack (2-part base/converter) paints, and I don't include the "hardener optional" type paints. These do an epoxy-LIKE transformation into a much harder and chemically resistant substance. I don't mean epoxy paints proper, because they deteriorate quickly in the sunlight. Better would be the 2-pack polyurethanes, as they are extremely resistant to UV and chemicals, and very little will stick to them. But then, they will stick to very little but an epoxy primer, and noting the UV vulnerability previously mentioned, you need to topcoat those right away. But that is nothing new with primer. |
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