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| Next Most Worthy of Preservation https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31509 |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
The Carolina Coastline thread got me thinking about the equipment in current use today and which things will be most worthy of preservation. It seems a lot of people focus on the oldest, most rare, favorite builder, or simply whatever they can get. I know there are a number of museums with growing diesel collections so it would be interesting to learn how they make these decisions. I am a steam guy myself but I find pondering the next round of preservation is very interesting. Do we preserve SD-40-2s in the same numbers as he have 2-8-0s? Can any old second generation diesel tell the same story in a museum? |
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| Author: | wesp [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
Quote: Do we preserve SD-40-2s in the same numbers as we have 2-8-0s? Can any old second generation diesel tell the same story in a museum? I think this is where the mission statement and collections policy of individual museums would come into play. Is the locomotive (2-8-0 or SD40-2) relevant to the story you are trying to tell? Wesley |
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| Author: | daylight4449 [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
I'd put my money on a LBSCR A1X. Maybe if the Depot Foundation gets lucky, the Canadian Railway Museum would be willing to transfer it to us. But that last on is a pipe dream. |
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| Author: | Erich Russ [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
A C&NW SD40-2 has been preserved at the Illinois Railway Museum in operating condition. They also have a WC SD45 and BN U30C. http://www.irm.org/gallery/CNW-6847 http://www2.irm.org/blogs/archives/812-CNW-6847-progress,-November-27,-2010.html |
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| Author: | Ed Kapuscinski [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
A former Conrail SD40-2 is on the CRHS's shortlist of items we'd pretty much bend over backwards to acquire. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
Relative to their actual numbers and impact, I'd still make the case that not enough GP7/GP9's are actually preserved. Still around, maybe, and a fair number of unrebuilt/original examples, maybe, but still in use. We need an example or two of rebuilt ones--chopped noses, upgraded, etc. We have GP30s. Any GP35s preserved? Ditto the above remarks/motions on GP/SD40-2's. Any Heritage Amtrak cars beside the dome cars everyone covets? Are enough ordinary stainless coaches--not diners, not lounges, not obs, just coaches--left? Amfleet? [runs and hides] |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
I'm as big a fan of steam as anybody, but what about the transition diesels from the GP-9 to the GP-30? These would have been the GP-18 and GP-20. I'll admit to being fuzzy on diesels, but wouldn't there have also been SD counterparts? What about Alco Century types of various classes? Seems that between their late and relatively small production, the large size of some of them (C-C models), their mechanical troubles (partially the result of pushing the technology for performance), and of course the exit of Alco from the business over 40 years ago made some of these units rare even when new, and they are even more rare now, if not extinct in some classes. |
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| Author: | robertmacdowell [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
Based on actual impact to railroading? Which major events happened relevant to equipment now coming available? Not the end of steam; 1st and 2nd generation diesels are pretty much in preservation already. The transition to intermodal and containers? Perhaps. But I don't know anyone who tells that story. The end of passenger railroads and the rise of Amtrak. But I don't see bunches of museums out to recreate 1971 rainbow fleets, at least, not intentionally. That leaves BART. Hey, I didn't write the history books, I'm just telling you what they say. BART was the groundbreaker and lantern bearer of a complete 180 degree snap turn for electric transit railroading. From a long and continuous decline, and ultimate bottoming-out, that had been set into motion by Henry Ford himself. To a true renaissance that has bred at least 50 new systems and projects, ranging from Atlanta Metro to the sincere renewal of the older systems. OK. There's one thing that's bigger than BART. But it's not really relevant to the United States. |
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| Author: | filmteknik [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
Yes, there was an SD18 (54 built) and SD24 / SD24B (179 & 43 built). Production figures from DSG-II. I understand the SD24 but the GP20 not so much. If you can crank the Roots-blown 567-16 up to 1800 HP why all the effort to turbocharge it for a mere 200 more HP? Going to 2400 on the SD, yeah sure. But just 200 more on the Geep? Note that on the 645-16 the Roots-blown is 2000 but the turbo version jumps a full 50% to 3000 HP. (Railroad ratings of course.) Steve |
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| Author: | artschwartz [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
The subject of preserving BART cars was covered exhaustively in a thread about a month ago. Two other groups of pioneering cars in the electric rail transit revival will not be available for preservation for the forseeable future, if ever. One group are the PATCO Lindenwold line cars which were the first automated rapid transit cars. PATCO is having these cars rebuilt for what will likely be many years of additional service. The other group are the original San Diego DUWAG light rail cars, the first of many to go into service in the U.S. These are being sold to a city in Argentina for continued use. |
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| Author: | Jdelhaye [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
filmteknik wrote: Yes, there was an SD18 (54 built) and SD24 / SD24B (179 & 43 built). Production figures from DSG-II. I understand the SD24 but the GP20 not so much. If you can crank the Roots-blown 567-16 up to 1800 HP why all the effort to turbocharge it for a mere 200 more HP? Going to 2400 on the SD, yeah sure. But just 200 more on the Geep? Note that on the 645-16 the Roots-blown is 2000 but the turbo version jumps a full 50% to 3000 HP. (Railroad ratings of course.) Steve The answer is fuel economy. In the turbocharged engine, the scavenging is powered by the exhaust gas energy, while in the roots blown engine, its powered by the crank (Yes I know, its indirect, thru geartrains, but the energy still comes off the crank). Jeff |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
"I understand the SD24 but the GP20 not so much. If you can crank the Roots-blown 567-16 up to 1800 HP why all the effort to turbocharge it for a mere 200 more HP? Going to 2400 on the SD, yeah sure. But just 200 more on the Geep?"--Steve "The answer is fuel economy. In the turbocharged engine, the scavenging is powered by the exhaust gas energy, while in the roots blown engine, its powered by the crank."--Jeff As you two went and tickled my brain cells, I remembered that the GP-20 was sold as a "unit reduction" locomotive. Now, this wouldn't have been much of a deal in replacing a 1750-hp GP-9 or an 1800-hp GP-18, but in 1960, when the GP-20 came out, those earlier diesels would have been maybe 7 years old or a good deal less. However, three GP-20s add up to 6,000 hp, and that is the same as a set of 4 F-7s or 4 F-3s, and the F-7s are at least 7 years old by this time, most of them older, and the F-3s are older still; the same would apply to GP-7s. The 4-unit, 5400-hp FTs are ancient by this time in diesel terms as well. Combine this with the improved fuel economy, and the limit for a long time of 500-hp per axle as what early anti-wheel-slip could handle, and you have the rational for the GP-20. |
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| Author: | robertmacdowell [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
artschwartz wrote: The subject of preserving BART cars was covered exhaustively in a thread about a month ago. I recall there was plenty to talk about, but the board's sharpest elbows decided they'd heard enough. They interrupted discussion literally by holding up a STOP sign, with such callous disregard for the genuine conversation going on, that the good people just shut up. Didn't much care for that. But then, that was the point, wasn't it. Quote: Two other groups of pioneering cars in the electric rail transit revival will not be available for preservation for the forseeable future, if ever. One group are the PATCO Lindenwold line cars which were the first automated rapid transit cars. PATCO is having these cars rebuilt for what will likely be many years of additional service. The other group are the original San Diego DUWAG light rail cars, the first of many to go into service in the U.S. These are being sold to a city in Argentina for continued use. That is a fact. And a great deal easier to preserve. I hope the NJ and Southland people are on the ball on those. The Sandy Eggo cars are the bailiwick of OERM, they're the one electric museum that'd have an interest. |
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| Author: | etalcos [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
There are both GP-18 and GP-35 models in preservation in Oak Ridge, Tennessee at Southern Appalachia Railway Museum. L&N 900 and GM&O 635 (?) are there. In addition L&N 1216 (SD-35), 1616 (U25B) and 1497 (U30C) are there too. I think SARM has the largest collection of L&N diesels and a nice assortment of Southern Railway and a few others. I believe that there is a C-630 (yes, a C, not the Ms that the Northeast is rich with) on display in Pine Bluff. On a sad note, I think that there are 2 or 3 RS-11s (1 TP&W and 1 N&W at least) that are being stripped and scrapped this week. Unfortunately they deserved better, but the parts will help save others. The high short hood on one of the units will be salvaged to correct some butchering that has occurred to another unit. Back to Tom's original question: U33C, U36C, examples of High Short Hood 6 axle power, High Short Hood GP-35 and newer through GP-50, a C628 (good luck!), a C430 (while we can), a U18B, and late model, non dynamic power (GP-50, SD-40-2, etc.). |
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| Author: | Gary Gray [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Next Most Worthy of Preservation |
VMT has an N&W C-630 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2260158 |
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