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I think PETA is watching closely because of the beating of a dead horse.

I would not say the Raton line is owned by the State of New Mexico yet in spite of the contract between the BNSF and the State of NM. The new governor does not want to make that purchase and is claiming a breach of contract by BNSF. I am sure more will come out on this issue in the future.

Robby Peartree

To All,

I want to point out that the SBRHS has a solid working relationship with Amtrak, BNSF and other regional railroads. Furthermore you do not have a better population base in other parts of the southwest in particular to draw from for both riders and volunteers. The importance of this should not be understated as railfans do little for the bottom line of many organizations. It should also be noted that SBRHS has a solid relationship with Grand Canyon Railway and the New Mexico Steam Locomotive and Railroad Historical Society, NMSL&RHS the AT&SF 2926 group in Albuquerque. They also seem to do more community outreach particularly with their educational program than most people. It is an example of where I believe that most steam groups miss a great opportunity to interact with the public. It is certainly something for those of us with smaller locomotives and no place to operate them to use as a model for possible uses.

If you really want to help the AT&SF 3751 you can go to http://www.sbrhs.org/ and make a donation.

Respectfully,

Robby Peartree

3751 has made at least three trips to San Bernardino on the Metrolink San Bernardino Line. This route has the advantage of minimal freight traffic (especially west of Kaiser on weekends) and relatively few speed restrictions. Historically, it provides the unusual experience of riding behind main line steam on a former interurban route from LA to El Monte and then from Baldwin Park to Claremont. As someone who remembers 3751 sitting cold, silent and motionless in a park near the San Bernardino depot, I would suspect there would be a lot of resistance to moving the Northern out of Southern California.

Having no building to store a loco in in So Cal isn't the same as having no building in Minnesota, for example. I think the #3751 folks have made an excellent niche for themselves in So Cal- they manage to run their loco several times a year on some of the busiest main line trackage in the country with nary a problem. It's arguably not the most scenic ride, but you can't have everything.

There aren't really a lot of other options for running a big 4-8-4 out there right now anyway. Think of the restored ones sitting gathering dust in other parts of the country because their owners are landlocked on track they can't access. Cotton Belt #819 comes to mind.

Author:	john 5614 [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:	santa fe 3751
I'm just wondering what keeps Santa Fe 3751 at L.A.They have a very nice locomotive be they have no track space to run or no building to store it so why not move again? I know tare has been some talk to move it to New Mexico but is not ready. So I have an idea,Why not move it to Minneapolis/St.Paul with the 261 people.What do you think of my idea?

Author:	Frisco1522 [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
I would have to agree that it makes no sense. Sandberg & Co probably have enough on their plate right now. At one time I had heard Grand Canyon RR wanted to lease it, but she would just be sitting in Williams right now. It is maintained by a group in LA who wouldn't want to lose it. I don't blame them.

Author:	davew833 [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
Having no building to store a loco in in So Cal isn't the same as having no building in Minnesota, for example. I think the #3751 folks have made an excellent niche for themselves in So Cal- they manage to run their loco several times a year on some of the busiest main line trackage in the country with nary a problem. It's arguably not the most scenic ride, but you can't have everything. There aren't really a lot of other options for running a big 4-8-4 out there right now anyway. Think of the restored ones sitting gathering dust in other parts of the country because their owners are landlocked on track they can't access. Cotton Belt #819 comes to mind.

Author:	Bobk [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
Most of these follow up comments are excellent points and certainly what has been discussed by the 3751 managing team. If the consideration is made to move the locomotive it would have to involve some type of lease arrangement as well as the method for the locomotive to travel in both directions, delivery wise that is. The San Diego round trips are not exactly devoid of scenery.

Author:	john 5614 [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
how much longer till 3751 is landlocked,already it can't go north or east. now much longer till they can't run to San Diego, two more years later then what. I'm not trying negative plus I'm thinking of the Steam Today article 3751 and the 2926. so my that is just move up the move and temporary move it to St.Paul/Minneapolis for a year or two then move it to New Mexico after they are ready.the 261 did it for a year at steam town same concept.

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Author:	Frisco1522 [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
I think PETA is watching closely because of the beating of a dead horse.

Author:	Robby Peartree [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
To All, I want to point out that the SBRHS has a solid working relationship with Amtrak, BNSF and other regional railroads. Furthermore you do not have a better population base in other parts of the southwest in particular to draw from for both riders and volunteers. The importance of this should not be understated as railfans do little for the bottom line of many organizations. It should also be noted that SBRHS has a solid relationship with Grand Canyon Railway and the New Mexico Steam Locomotive and Railroad Historical Society, NMSL&RHS the AT&SF 2926 group in Albuquerque. They also seem to do more community outreach particularly with their educational program than most people. It is an example of where I believe that most steam groups miss a great opportunity to interact with the public. It is certainly something for those of us with smaller locomotives and no place to operate them to use as a model for possible uses. If you really want to help the AT&SF 3751 you can go to http://www.sbrhs.org/ and make a donation. Respectfully, Robby Peartree

Author:	Bob Davis [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
3751 has made at least three trips to San Bernardino on the Metrolink San Bernardino Line. This route has the advantage of minimal freight traffic (especially west of Kaiser on weekends) and relatively few speed restrictions. Historically, it provides the unusual experience of riding behind main line steam on a former interurban route from LA to El Monte and then from Baldwin Park to Claremont. As someone who remembers 3751 sitting cold, silent and motionless in a park near the San Bernardino depot, I would suspect there would be a lot of resistance to moving the Northern out of Southern California.

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
The ONLY reasons to entertain a relocation of 3751 would be: Hostile preservation environment, i.e. nobody wants it there, no one wants to ride, it, etc. (That's not the case in Southern California/3751); No opportunity to operate it where it is (demonstrably false); *Better/more lucrative "business"/operating opportunities elsewhere, i.e. a ten-year lease to the Grand Canyon, Strasburg, Napa Valley Wine Train, or whoever (ain't gonna happen). If somebody is truly desperate to see big Santa Fe steam elsewhere, they can throw support behind the 2926 guys in New Mexico; after all, they theoretically could have easy access to the state-owned Raton Pass line, maintained for Amtrak and little else as far as BNSF is concerned, AND they have a local commuter operation with which to partner for equipment, insurance, trackage rights, etc.

Author:	Robby Peartree [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
I would not say the Raton line is owned by the State of New Mexico yet in spite of the contract between the BNSF and the State of NM. The new governor does not want to make that purchase and is claiming a breach of contract by BNSF. I am sure more will come out on this issue in the future. Robby Peartree

Author:	Mike Swanson [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
Frisco1522 wrote: I think PETA is watching closely because of the beating of a dead horse. LOL! No kidding...

Author:	Mike Swanson [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
Robby Peartree wrote: I would not say the Raton line is owned by the State of New Mexico yet in spite of the contract between the BNSF and the State of NM. The new governor does not want to make that purchase and is claiming a breach of contract by BNSF. I am sure more will come out on this issue in the future. Robby Peartree Technically speaking, the state does possess the title to the line; however, the governor's office wants to return the line north of Lamy to BNSF due to maintenance costs and the cost of converting the line to PTC. We will indeed hear more later on.

Author:	Mike Swanson [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
Robby Peartree wrote: To All, I want to point out that the SBRHS has a solid working relationship with Amtrak, BNSF and other regional railroads. Furthermore you do not have a better population base in other parts of the southwest in particular to draw from for both riders and volunteers. The importance of this should not be understated as railfans do little for the bottom line of many organizations. It should also be noted that SBRHS has a solid relationship with Grand Canyon Railway and the New Mexico Steam Locomotive and Railroad Historical Society, NMSL&RHS the AT&SF 2926 group in Albuquerque. They also seem to do more community outreach particularly with their educational program than most people. It is an example of where I believe that most steam groups miss a great opportunity to interact with the public. It is certainly something for those of us with smaller locomotives and no place to operate them to use as a model for possible uses. If you really want to help the AT&SF 3751 you can go to http://www.sbrhs.org/ and make a donation. Respectfully, Robby Peartree Furthermore, SBRHS has a very solid base of both public and financial support from which they can draw from which they will very likely not have here in New Mexico or elsewhere; moving out here would quite likely be a case of "killing the goose that lays golden eggs", and while we at NMSL&RHS wouldn't mid having SBRHS out here with us, we do not want them to lose their existing support at all.

Author:	Mike Swanson [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
Bob Davis wrote: 3751 has made at least three trips to San Bernardino on the Metrolink San Bernardino Line. This route has the advantage of minimal freight traffic (especially west of Kaiser on weekends) and relatively few speed restrictions. Historically, it provides the unusual experience of riding behind main line steam on a former interurban route from LA to El Monte and then from Baldwin Park to Claremont. As someone who remembers 3751 sitting cold, silent and motionless in a park near the San Bernardino depot, I would suspect there would be a lot of resistance to moving the Northern out of Southern California. Don't forget that she can still make trips on the Surf Line once in a while; it takes a lot of planning to pull these trips off, mind you, but not as much as say, a run to Chicago would and there has never been a lack of riders or public interest for these trips! 3751 does have a historic connection to Albuquerque via the former Santa Fe shops complex here, as the entire 3751 class was upgraded here both pre- and post-WW2, but she has far stronger and much longer connections to Southern California and SBRHS has made good use of those historic ties. That's yet one more reason why SBRHS will not be (and should not be) moving out of the Southland anytime soon (if ever).

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Author:	Mike Swanson [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: santa fe 3751
davew833 wrote: Having no building to store a loco in in So Cal isn't the same as having no building in Minnesota, for example. I think the #3751 folks have made an excellent niche for themselves in So Cal- they manage to run their loco several times a year on some of the busiest main line trackage in the country with nary a problem. It's arguably not the most scenic ride, but you can't have everything. There aren't really a lot of other options for running a big 4-8-4 out there right now anyway. Think of the restored ones sitting gathering dust in other parts of the country because their owners are landlocked on track they can't access. Cotton Belt #819 comes to mind. We don't have a building to store 2926 or work on her in, but it's not a big issue for us either. We don't get a tremendous amount of rain and neither do they, plus while the climate there is more humid than ours is, it's definitely not as bad as being in Gulfport, Mississippi, for example. No building for storage is a pain, but it's no show-stopper. The one thing that will keep SBRHS from moving out here to Albuquerque (or elsewhere) is the lack of a secure location with adequate security; they've got that at Redondo Junction, and while the GSA siding we're currently on is federal property, fully fenced with razor wire, and federal police (not "rent-a-cops") do patrol the area regularly, it is rather open and the tender has already been tagged by one of the local "crews", nor is there enough room to have both locomotives there AND allow 3751 to run while allowing restoration work to proceed on 2926. We're obviously very interested in relocating to the shop complex and are involved with the efforts to develop the property (and secure a permanent place for ourselves there), but it will be some time before that project comes to pass. Simply put, there's nowhere for 3751 to stay out here (except for brief visits) and SBRHS won't even consider moving until that changes.