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| Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31522 |
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| Author: | Rob Gardner [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
Folks, Just checked out Austin Steam Train Association's website to see if there was an update to be had regarding the restoration of the SP 2-8-2 No.786. Indeed, there is a lot of good news to report: 1. Machining of the new piston valve cylinders is complete and they are about to be mated with the frame and secured with new tapered bolts. 2. The restoration is now in the reassembly phase! 3. Drivers and ready to reinstall with new tires installed. 4. The project is fully funded and the end is in site! This has been a long-term effort for ASTA and they are to be applauded for their efforts and fortitude to see this project through to this point. Can't wait to see her under steam again. Yours in Steam, Rob Gardner |
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| Author: | ns2110 [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
That's great news! Your group's website has quite extensive photos that have shown the progress all along. I think Austin will be on my list of places to visit once i hit the lottery. J.T. |
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| Author: | daylight4449 [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
ns2110 wrote: That's great news! Your group's website has quite extensive photos that have shown the progress all along. I think Austin will be on my list of places to visit once i hit the lottery. J.T. Maybe just a place to visit while on vacation. Get to see a working baldwin that was put together in a completely different location then their shops. How many companies can say that they provided all the parts to a group for assembly of the final product. EMD can say that about it's 265-engined diesels that are being sent in kit form to China. |
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| Author: | jim templin [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
If they did half of what I have seen and read they have done to it, they are certainly getting into the neighborhood of a full sized replica. Certainly the new parts manufactured point in that direction, in any case. I have a friend up north that is already making the patterns to build a full sized, 150 hp JI Case traction engine (the largest the company made). While this is something like a 20 some odd ton machine, the casting of gears and fabrication of wheels, ect. approaches the complexity of a locomotive, even if a different configuration. I wouldn't have said this even ten years ago, but I now believe that Leviathan and other such projects will make reproduction a more viable alternative than rebuilding in certain cases and economic considerations. The English seem to build a new narrow guage steam locomotive somewhere over there every year or two. And before some wag states the obvious difference between a 150 ton Mike and a 40 ton American, I know....but if someone was to cook up a Baldwin Catalog ten wheeler or prairie......... |
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| Author: | hamster [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
jim templin wrote: If they did half of what I have seen and read they have done to it, they are certainly getting into the neighborhood of a full sized replica. Certainly the new parts manufactured point in that direction, in any case. At Minnesota Transportation Museum we have NP No. 2153, a class Q3 Pacific built in 1906 that has a cylinder saddle manufactured in 1946. The NP had new castings made at a foundry in St. Paul and did the replacement in their own shops. The original cylinder casting had inside admission valves while the replacement is the more modern outside admission. Don't know why they had to do this, but the railroads did what ASTA has done, and apparently on a regular basis. Obviously the replacement was much cheaper than a whole new locomotive! You do what you have to do to keep your investment out on the road producing cash! |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
hamster wrote: jim templin wrote: If they did half of what I have seen and read they have done to it, they are certainly getting into the neighborhood of a full sized replica. Certainly the new parts manufactured point in that direction, in any case. At Minnesota Transportation Museum we have NP No. 2153, a class Q3 Pacific built in 1906 that has a cylinder saddle manufactured in 1946. The NP had new castings made at a foundry in St. Paul and did the replacement in their own shops. The original cylinder casting had inside admission valves while the replacement is the more modern outside admission. Don't know why they had to do this, but the railroads did what ASTA has done, and apparently on a regular basis. Obviously the replacement was much cheaper than a whole new locomotive! You do what you have to do to keep your investment out on the road producing cash! Hamster - Does the other Q3 Pacific at MTM (2156?) also have the newer cylinder saddle with outside, instead of inside, admission? Wasn't one of these two 4-6-2's being restored to operation? How is that coming? Les |
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| Author: | hamster [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
MTM does indeed have TWO NP Class Q3 Pacifics, 2153 and 2156. Regarding NP 2156, that locomotive has its original cylinder saddle with inside admission, piston valves and Walschaerts valve gear. The MTM has been struggling with what to do with this locomotive for at least 15 years because during its career as a display at the Como Park Zoo in St. Paul, water got into the steam passages and froze, damaging the cylinder casting. MTM would like to restore 2156 to operation because of its local connection to St. Paul, but has not yet discovered a workable, affordable fix for the damaged cylinder casting. |
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| Author: | rbd3985 [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
786 is not a Baldwin alumni. She was built in 1916 by Brooks (ALCo). Can't wait to see her running again! Its been 12 years since she last run. If ASTA can do it so can the MTM. They just have to have the willingness, the patience, and the intestinal fortitude to do so. ~Ricky |
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| Author: | Newriver400 [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
I am sure SOC's esteemed Mr. Lindsay probably told me 10 or so years ago, but does anyone here recall exactly what part(s) of the cylinder casting(s) were damaged on the 786 when it was blown over on its side? I'm guessing the NP engine at MTM Jackson Street has damage that is completely inaccessible? Otherwise, I would think that specialized welding or metal stitching could be employed to make the repairs. 4501 has a steam chest repair where a chunk of the casting was broken between the valve cage opening and the cylinder on the front left side as a result of a little-known-about incident involving a side swipe during a deadhead move over 30+ years ago on the Southern. The boxcar fared worse as I understand it. It was at this time that the single lunger air pump under the fireman's valve ladder was involuntarily removed (the valve ladder was remove as well). The valve ladder was replaced, the air pump not. I am trying to recall from memory, but I think the fact that it occurred where valve cages and cylinder liners are located allowed for a less involved repair. Mike, Mohawk, Indiana |
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| Author: | rbd3985 [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
786 blown over on its side? Do you mean by the tornado in 1997? 786 was NOT blown over by that tornado, but her tender was. The tender was detached and I believe empty of water and oil and therefore, lighter. I was told by various people with ASTA over the years that 786 was involved in several collisions when in regular service. Cracks in they cylinder saddle due to those collisions grew over time and eventually caused her to be pulled from service. ~Ricky |
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| Author: | Robby Peartree [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
Hi All, It should be noted that when the tornado put the tender (T&NO number?) on its side the locomotive was going through a quarterly (old code) which required you to separate the locomotive and tender to inspect the drawbar. I wonder with the two attached if there would not have been more damage? It was truly amazing to me no one was hurt and 786 pulled the train six days latter. A testament to the ASTA. Robby Peartree |
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| Author: | Newriver400 [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
Newriver400 wrote: I am sure SOC's esteemed Mr. Lindsay probably told me 10 or so years ago, but does anyone here recall exactly what part(s) of the cylinder casting(s) were damaged on the 786 when it was blown over on its side? Well, goes to show that even a gen-Xer can have senior moments. So screwed that one up. It has been so long since the engine was taken out of service that I've forgotten what event(s) precipitated the final demise of the original casting. Think I remember something about only one half of the steam chest needing replacement, but the whole mirror image thing made economic sense to do the whole thing. Guessing that the most expensive parts of the pattern like core boxes and such were able to be re-used for both sides. (Or, were both halves identical with respect to front vs rear of the castings, enabling two of the same casting to be mated for a whole steam chest?) Best, Mike |
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| Author: | Rob Gardner [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
I don't belive 786 was blown over if I read that remark correctly. The defect, I recall, exisited all along but made itself known and grew to the point the cylinders would not function correctly. If the back cylinder head is bolted on and not cast in place, it would seem that two identical halves could be machined and mated with making separate RH and LH castings. I thought I recalled reading that one of the reasons MTM wanted both NP Pacifics was so they could swap cylinders between the two engines and one that could be restored to operation. Maybe that has changed as other obstacles/realities have made themselves known. Rob Gardner |
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| Author: | daylight4449 [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
hamster wrote: MTM does indeed have TWO NP Class Q3 Pacifics, 2153 and 2156. Regarding NP 2156, that locomotive has its original cylinder saddle with inside admission, piston valves and Walschaerts valve gear. The MTM has been struggling with what to do with this locomotive for at least 15 years because during its career as a display at the Como Park Zoo in St. Paul, water got into the steam passages and froze, damaging the cylinder casting. MTM would like to restore 2156 to operation because of its local connection to St. Paul, but has not yet discovered a workable, affordable fix for the damaged cylinder casting. For getting to that cylinder, I would suggest that the pilot truck be removed and the front of the engine jacked up. That might give enough clearence to get to the steam passage. But i'm no expert, and what works on paper might not work in pratice... |
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| Author: | hamster [ Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Good News from ASTA Regarding SP 786 |
I am a "johnny-come-lately" to the MTM's NP2156 problem. Better heads than mine have been applied to the broken steam passage issue over the years, with no resolution in sight. Whether the problem is $$$, or method, or both, I am not privy. I do know, however, that the cylinder saddle starts out as a generic pair of castings that are machined and uniquely fit to a specific locomotive frame, making a swap very unlikely. It is not yet clear, since no detailed evaluation has been performed on the 2153, whether the 2153 is the better of the two locomotives to restore. In the meantime, 2156 is disassembled, on display in the Jackson Street Roundhouse and the 2153 is stored, looking rather forelorn, in covered storage. |
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