Since technology is becoming so cheap (relatively) in today's world and since everything is digital anymore, has anyone thought about taking a steamer slated for cosmetic restoration only and turning it into a simulator? I saw a page that seems to suggest the Pennsylvania Railarod Museum may have done this, but has anyone else? I am also curious if anyone has thought of using the cab of a real locomotive to control a model locomotive over a layout of some historic/no longer in use route? It seems like it wouldn't be too expensive to do anymore. I have most of the interface parts that would be required sitting in my bedroom.

Proposed in an article called something like "Live Steam Nn2 1/2 Scale" in Model Railroader (or was it RMC?) back around 1970. The cab and backhead of a scrapped full size steamer was used to control a Nn2 1/2 scale live steam locomotive on a model railroad. Perhaps somebody old enough can remember it and provide a link.

dave

Also in Model Railroader (sometime in the 80's as I recall), there was a gentleman who operated his model railroad from within a full F-unit nose/cab, complete with wired up controls. I seem to recall the nose and cab was purchased at/as scrap, lowered into the basement and the house then built over it. Cab was finished and painted for KCS if the memory banks are hitting on all cylinders. Think the guy may have been a well-off doctor.

I think the diesel or even electric car simulator is easier to accomplish. Much of the steam "experience" is physical, manual effort, not so easily accomplished digitally. Although the whole Wii moveable joystick thing could be rigged to simulate tossing coal !

It couldn’t be a true simulator as you can’t simulate the vibrations from the foot plate. But most of all, how would you simulate the foamers taking photos and getting onto the tracks ahead of you, local yard masters treating you like their own model railroad layout, self-important fans demanding to have a cab ride or people trackside telling you the typeface on the tender lettering is 1/1000 inch too small?
Seriously, I swear I recall reading of a steam locomotive cab once set up to run a model RR many years ago, but I can’t recall where I read it.

I am not old enough to have seen the model railroader article, but I do remember seeing it on a PBS special. I also have a friend who post here occasionally that is big in G scale. He showed me pictures of a guy's control system. He has the controls of an GP-7 that he moves to different shows. I was thinking of an oil fired engine so there is no shoveling required. This next part is going to sound like a game, but I think for something like this, that is essentially what it is. It is a two player game with player one being the engineer and player two being the fireman. The computer can play either part so that two people aren't required. There is an O, G (insert your own scale) locomotive on a layout of a historic road in your area (such as the Saint Louis, Iron Mountain and Southern in my case). There is a camera on the engineer's side and fireman's side of the cab of model so the people in the simulator see what the engine sees. Set a time scale on the clock (just like a model operating session) and tell them to make it between two points on time (use ATS so you can't run through red blocks). Using a physics engine, restrictions could be set on acceleration and grade changes. A physics engine could also allow for changes in firing. Obviously this would not be as good as the real thing, but I think it could give a better glimpse into the life of enginemen than a static display and would give more people access to that glimpse than a cab ride program (I like them, but younger kids can't take them).

Attached is a copy of the October 1975 "Railroad Model Craftsman". This 1/4" cab is used to run a HO layout. Interesting non-the-less.

I seem to recall reading that the Chesapeake and Ohio had something like this in the 1940s. This wasn't a true "simulator;" rather, it was a mockup of a 4-6-4 cab, with a movie showing through the front windows, reportedly in color, of the right-of-way in the area of White Sulfur Springs.

I understand the freight railroads have simulators of modern diesel cabs for instruction purposes. They reportedly do include a motion base to simulate sway and vibration for the person in training.

http://www.orcarail.com/

http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/about/roster/ ... ndex.shtml

I've seen auto race video games at arcades that incorporated a motion base; wonder if something like that could be had cheap for a project like this?

Biggest problem I see will be the programming. I don't think that would be something to acquire off the shelf.

Who's a good programmer around here?

The hard work, I think, is done. Take a look at Auran's Trainz (one of the best sellers in the Conrail Shoppe, btw...):


https://www.shoppe.thecrhs.org/catalog/ ... VD-Edition

I was actually just playing it, and while not perfect, it's fun.

There are some rather well known items recreated, too: http://uslw.net/downloads.php?action=view&id=485

Back when I went through the BN's Overland Park Engineer Training school in '88, they had desktop sims. Next time I went up they had a full size cab and it was incredibly real with the noise, motion and reactions. The operator told me they had somebody actually get sick on the thing. I nearly spit out the window after a while, it was that realistic.
So, if you have a few extra million floating around, look into it.

I heard a story about a class 1's simulator that was so realistic when presented with an imminent rear-end collision scenario, a veteran engineer jumped out the window of the thing and broke his arm.

Those vibrations and more can certainly be simulated with today's technology. The Marine Corps Museum has a section of fuselage from a helicopter in their Vietnam section that vibrates and simulates the heat and humidity one might have experienced.

With modern special effects everything is possible. From what I had heard the USMC museum was assisted by Disney Imagineer types to help bring some of their exhibits to life. Many museums outside of railroading are using this approach to engage the visitors in ways that bring them right into the story being told. This approach could work very well with certain aspects of railroading to bring a "real" experience to visitors when it may not be possible using actual equipment.

Kevin

If you can fake reality, you are an interpreter. If you can enhance reality for trailer park residents, you are a TV network. If you can fake sincerity, you are a politician.

We need all but the one in the middle in our business. There's a lot of competition for diminishing discretionary entertainment money out there.

dave

When I went through the same simulator Frisco 1522 went through, that story alledgely occurred in Overland Park. At least that is what Homer Henry said anyways...

In a real world, a steam locomotive simulator would have some wild cards built in.
All of a sudden, an injector won't pick up. Or the smell of hot pin grease drifts into the cab. The sanders don't work. The engineer doesn't know how to run a steam locomotive (this is for the fireman) and leaves it either down in the corner or three exhausts and is up on center. You get a load of crappy oil (or coal) Coal fire clinkers,Oil won't flow right. Dynamo gets cranky. Air pump or governor acts up. Stoker quits. Bell ringer acts up. Engine starts pounding. Power reverse acts up or quits. Brake valve starts leaking. Crappy water that foams so that you have to run the water almost out of sight in the bottom of the glass, can't use the injector when it's foaming and blow the whistle at the same time. (Water problems in TX). Water glass breaks. Cylinder or throttle packing pops a leak. It's -10 outside and you have to stick your head out to see the signals.
Why should the simulator always be a fun thing? Make it real.
I'm sure there are more scenarios, but these should make you pull the cover from the seatbox.

My point with this wasn't to make it as realistic as possible. My point was to bring the concepts of running a steam engine to the general public. I'm from Saint Louis, so the closest running full scale steam is up in Monticello I believe (please correct me if I am wrong). I would rather have the real thing as well, don't get me wrong. I was just thinking for people who aren't going to drive 2.5-3 hours just to see an engine, how can the experience be brought to them. Also, I was thinking how to get younger kids who can't have a cab ride but still want to drive the train involved. I am not very old myself, but I know I wanted to drive a steam engine back when I was only 6 (too bad the SLSTA had to dissolve before I was old enough), but couldn't. I could only pretend by sitting in the cab of the Big Boy at the museum of transportation. I was thinking a simulator would be a good way to bring a partial experience to the younger kids and to the adults who aren't train nuts. It doesn't have to be 100% real right away and it can be improved as time goes on and technology advances. I was just looking for a way to bring the experience to those who aren't fortunate enough to have a steam operation right down the road and who can't take a cab ride/throttle time lesson.