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| The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31701 |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
Those who are model railroad enthusiasts here may have heard about the announcement that Bachmann will be introducing a mass or semi-mass production B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4 in HO scale. This affected my brain, which has the strange characteristic of thinking or recalling something when something else has been brought up--and in this case, it was supposedly an additional order for 2 of these Eastern Yellowstones for a shortline railroad, the Bingham & Garfield. These engines are mentioned in a lengthy article on the history of Mallets by Henry B. Comstock (who as also editor at the time) in the March 1944 edition of Railroad Magazine. Obviously, nothing actually came of this, but it is interesting that this was apparently being considered, and it would be equally interesting to find out what actually happened. According to what sources I can find, the Bingham & Garfield was a subsidiary of the Utah Copper Company (later Kennecott Copper), and had a main line just over 35 miles long in 1911, running between a mine in Bingham Canyon and a smelting operation at Garfield, Utah. Interchange was with the Los Angeles & Salt Lake (later Union Pacific) at Garfield. Additional interchanges would be opened between the Denver & Rio Grande Western at Magma, Utah, and the Western Pacific at Garfield. The whole railroad would be replaced by a new "low grade" railroad in 1947, and was listed as abandoned in 1948. http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/bingarr.htm Apparently the road had at least one very impressive bridge: http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_v ... SOPTR=3525 Desolate country, and a Mallet: http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_v ... SOPTR=6493 Heavy power on the B&G: http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_v ... X=1&REC=14 Some other photos: http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_v ... X=1&REC=15 http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_v ... OX=1&REC=9 http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_v ... X=1&REC=13 http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/item_v ... X=1&REC=16 Quite a roster variety for a road with only 5 or 6 engines--so far, have found photos of an 0-6-0, an 0-8-8-0 (which reminds me of a B&O EE-1), and another engine on a passenger train that could be a 2-8-0 or a 4-6-0. General collection: http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/result ... ld+Railway Other photos: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/ ... /bgrr1.jpg http://www.funimag.com/wordpress/wp-con ... 12-001.jpg Caption from a history page on the Nevada Northern: "Fireman and Head Brakeman are on the seat box of No. 95 on this ore train that may be adjacent to the Boston spur. Three Bingham & Garfield (Utah) ore cars followed by three 900-series cars and finally another Utah car." http://history.nevadanorthernrailway.ne ... 95lane.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3269/289 ... 07ef83.jpg What I found on the replacement railroad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennecott_ ... _rail_line Promotional footage for a video on Utah electric roads, including the "new" Kennecott line, interurbans, and a touch of the Nevada Northern: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z7uz7FhWIo Copper mining in 1952: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjpHRkrr ... re=related Looks like the mine is worked with trucks today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CDo9uNjFIk&NR=1 More information and other photos, including some in color: http://www.utahrails.net/bingham/bingham-notes.php http://www.utahrails.net/bingham/bingham-after-1981.php http://www.utahrails.net/bingham/kcc-di ... c-loco.php Have fun--and incidently, does anybody know the story behind the proposed Yellowstones that would have worked for Kennecott Copper? |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
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| Author: | Jeff Terry [ Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
B&G was a pretty neat piece of railroad; more photos are in Steven L. Carr's book "Utah Ghost Rails." I can't tell you anything about the proposed Yellowstones, but I can tell you that there's a definite connection between the B&G and steam preservation. Many of the train crew that worked on Utah's Wasatch Mountain Railway (Heber Creeper) in the early 1970s were current or former B&G/Kennecott employees, and I've always felt that the place had a definite "B&G" feel to it through the mid-1980s. The B&G was a mountain railroad, and the Heber Creeper was run like a mountain railroad. I remember that "Chick" Nielsen had a B&G whistle in the shop, but I never did see it mounted on UP 618 when I worked there. Jeff Terry |
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| Author: | dinwitty [ Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
friends of my father shot film of the electric operation, they had steeple cabs with side winder pantagraphs. Impressive operation. Bachmann surprises me sometimes, they made the 2-6-6-2 and I got the W&LE variation which is not available now. I may get their 2-8-8-4 tho its not my mainstream modeling, just like the Akane DM&IR yellowstone I had to get, maybe its another must have. I had a chance to buy an Akane EM1 off ebay that used to belong to Red Skelton, but since I was not interested in the B&O I skipped buying it, DUMB!!! anyways, I bought a bachmann 2-10-4 he owned, so I have something he had... 8-D it has a busted lead truck, and has a twanky sound system. Never heard of the B&G sounds like a fascinating operation like the DM&IR was. Not a big railroad but small and fierce. |
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| Author: | Don Strack [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
This discussion is why I come and read this discussion group. I learn the most amazing things. I have added the information about these proposed two locomotives to the Bingham & Garfield Railway page at UtahRails.net. http://www.utahrails.net/bingham/bingham-garfield.php (scroll down to March 1944) I'll see if I can obtain a copy of the March 1944 issue of Railroad magazine. Don Strack http://www.utahrails.net/ |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
donstrack wrote: I'll see if I can obtain a copy of the March 1944 issue of Railroad magazine. Sitting right here. What do you want to know? |
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| Author: | Don Strack [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
If possible, a scan of the article. Nothing fancy; volume and number, date, page, etc. I want to put the item about the (possible) B&G locomotives in proper context. I've done the Arcadia book about Bingham Canyon Railroads. Now I want to expand it into a much larger and more complete project, including larger photos, more text, and maps. Don Strack http://www.utahrails.net/bingham/bingham-index.php |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
The article is almost forty pages long, with lots of builders' photos and some in-service photos; the entirety of the item you seek is below from page 42: Quote: As we go to press, twenty-two more 2-8-8-4s are being built by Baldwin, of which an even score will go to the Baltimore & Ohio and the others to the Bingham & Garfield. A profile drawing of the B&O machine appears on pages 44 and 45. She will have twenty-four by thirty-two-inch cylinders, sixty-four-inch drivers, two hundred and thirty-five pounds' boiler pressure, and a tractive effort of 115,000 pounds. Total engine weight is estimated at around three hundred and twenty tons.
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: The article is almost forty pages long, with lots of builders' photos and some in-service photos; the entirety of the item you seek is below from page 42: Quote: As we go to press, twenty-two more 2-8-8-4s are being built by Baldwin, of which an even score will go to the Baltimore & Ohio and the others to the Bingham & Garfield. For the record, a "score" is defined by Webster as "twenty people or things" thus 20 of the Yellowstones were supposed to go to the B&O with the other 2 then to the B&G. Question: did the B&O eventually get all 22, or were only 20 built? Les |
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| Author: | Don Strack [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
Thanks. I checked my copy of Bob Lehmuth's Baldwin builder list, and all the serial numbers are sequential between the five 2-10-4s for B&LE before the 20 B&O EM-1s, and the 20 SP 4200-class Cab Fowards after the EM-1s. I've never seen any data covering canceled Baldwin orders. B&G received two ex N&W Y-2a's in 1943. Maybe the new locomotives from Baldwin were canceled when the Y-2s arrived [big shrug]. Research continues... Don Strack |
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| Author: | Dave Stephenson [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
According to my records, B&O had 30 EM-1's total, 7600-7629, but that doesn't quite answer the question above. |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
Doggone it, should have checked the total roster information on the 7600s. These engines were delivered in two orders, a first one of 20 and a second of 10. My faulty memory thought the orders had been for 20 and 5, hence the title of "26th and 27th EM-1s." It really should have been the 31st and 32nd--or alternately, the 21st and 22nd. Either way, these extra locomotives were mentioned in at least one other item in another issue of Railroad in that time period, which suggests there was something to this proposed but never filled order. The question is, what became of it? How solid was it? Was it actually a proposal, not a real order? Was it one of the orders that got cancelled or reallocated by the War Production Board of the time? http://www.american-rails.com/em-1.html http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 29&nseq=63 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwsEYgHX6Og |
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| Author: | Don Strack [ Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
I asked Bob Lehmuth about canceled Baldwin orders. Here is his reply. "What I suspicion is that the WPB put the end to that [the B&G 2-8-8-4s]. I checked all the 1944 production - nearly 1400 units - with very few locomotives built for "private RR's - B&O & SP - these being less than 100 total. The only enigma is the PRR Steam Turbine 6-8-6 which was built in the middle of all this." "There were over 1200 locos built for the US War Dept - for Europe (D-Day) and over 700 (2-10-0's) of those going to the SZD (Soviet State Ry)." In any case, B&G apparently made it through without the two extra locomotives; the two ex-N&W Y2s acquired in 1943 were their last steam locomotives. They started construction on their new all-electric private railroad in May 1946, with service starting in April 1948. B&G was abandoned at that time. Don Strack |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The 26th and 27th EM-1 2-8-8-4s |
Was looking at one of those collections of railroad films you sometimes can pick up for a few bucks that have a bunch of old PR stuff, and one of those flicks was this one, "Desert Empire," about the D&RGW in Utah. Notable in it is footage of the now-buried town of Bingham, Utah, and footage of the copper mining operations and the Bingham & Garfield. It's available on YouTube; the copper oriented footage starts at 10:15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL4c0_qi4fc |
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