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| New steam locomotive https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31760 |
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| Author: | jasonsobczynski [ Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | New steam locomotive |
What ever came of that "new" steam locomotive that was built off of the drivers of a two axle diesel locomotive? It was being constructed somewhere on the west coast, possibly pacific northwest? Jason |
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| Author: | Taylor Rush [ Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
I'm guessing you are referring to the unusual little 13 that was constructed by the Nevada County group in California. http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/pb/wp_5031e ... 2545403689 Taylor |
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| Author: | jasonsobczynski [ Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
Exactly the one! How did that thing end up performing for them? Jason |
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| Author: | daylight4449 [ Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
That thing looks pretty good. The concept of using a steam generator is definitely something I haven't heard of. One question I have is if a steam generator skips around some of the FRA rules regarding steam locomotives. |
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| Author: | survivingworldsteam [ Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
daylight4449 wrote: That thing looks pretty good. The concept of using a steam generator is definitely something I haven't heard of. One question I have is if a steam generator skips around some of the FRA rules regarding steam locomotives. Being able to skirt some of the rules regarding steam locomotives is exactly why they went that route. It also has automated controls for one man operation, I believe. |
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| Author: | steamerdon [ Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
[quote="daylight4449"]That thing looks pretty good. The concept of using a steam generator is definitely something I haven't heard of. One question I have is if a steam generator skips around some of the FRA rules regarding steam locomotives.[/quote] This brings up a funny but true story that occurred during the time of Ede's Quakertown and Eastern excursion operations. Someone suggested gutting the entire interior of the boiler and placing several package boilers inside the barrel and firebox! Don Fenstermacher[/b][/quote] |
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| Author: | filmteknik [ Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
It's crossed my mind that one could fit a baggage car with several locomotive type steam generators to supply steam to a locomotive with a non working boiler but I was never sure how many you'd need to furnish sufficient steam. Time for some back of the envelope calculations. (No, really, it's the back of my cellular bill.) Rich Melvin once said the 765 consumed an average of about 122 gallons of water per mile. That's 1017 lbs. Let's say such an engine is rolling at about 30 miles an hour. That's 30,510 lbs. per hour. A mid-size S.G. can evaporate about 2400 lbs. per hour. Can you fit 13 S.G.'s in a baggage car? Okay, Lima Super Power was too much of a stretch. Maybe something Thomas-sized is more reasonable. A real steam Thomas without the headaches of a "real" boiler (in exchange you get the headaches of a steam generator). Steve |
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| Author: | Chris Salmonson [ Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Real steam locomotive |
I'll stick with fire tube boilers and the know how to maintain and operate one. |
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| Author: | jim templin [ Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
steamerdon wrote: daylight4449 wrote: That thing looks pretty good. The concept of using a steam generator is definitely something I haven't heard of. One question I have is if a steam generator skips around some of the FRA rules regarding steam locomotives. This brings up a funny but true story that occurred during the time of Ede's Quakertown and Eastern excursion operations. Someone suggested gutting the entire interior of the boiler and placing several package boilers inside the barrel and firebox! Don Fenstermacher[/b] First of all, just because a boiler is a "flash" type monotube (watertube) boiler, doesn't mean its gets out from under regulation in locomotive service under any jurisdiction with which I am aware. There are some jurisdictions that exempt steam automobiles, but not locomotives. If this monstrosity were presented in most jurisdictions, the first question would be where is its ASME power boiler "S" stamp. Its not an "historic" boiler under most definitions-it is an amateur built boiler. Secondly, this idea of just "buying a bunch of steam generators and package boilers and sticking them in a baggage car" is beyond ludicrous; its ridiculous. Firstly, all boilers don't make steam at the same rate-despite the black magic that is boiler horsepower formulea, a 25 hp boiler (upright or scotch marine) that would run a dry cleaners wouldn't be able to sustain continued operation of a 25hp recipricating steam engine. Locomotive style boilers have an inherent overload capacity that modern package boilers do not. In internal cumbustion terms, a five hp two stroke gasoline lawnmower engine doesn't have the same sustained power capacity as a 5 hp, slow speed one lunger flywheel engine. They are made to power different things. From an economic view, either fixing the old boiler you have, or building a new one to the old pattern would still be cheaper. Package boilers generally run around $1000 or more per hp....even a small standard guage steam locomotive would be in the 300-500 hp range, and that would be enough money get the right thing built and installed. Replacing one boiler designed for the job with a bunch of them that aren't....really bad idea. There are no shortcuts in railway preservation. |
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| Author: | survivingworldsteam [ Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
Not argueing at all whatsoever with what Jim and others said; but I now recall they also thought they could get by with less operator training and have no worries about boiler explosions by going with a package boiler. |
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| Author: | filmteknik [ Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
The ridiculousness of the concept should have been apparent in my post as it was part of the point. Steve |
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| Author: | Gary Gray [ Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
Now that I think about it I get it. Unfortunately I don't think there is an internet symbol for facetiousness.....:) If there was I would have used it many times |
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| Author: | filmteknik [ Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
Not to say I wouldn't like to see someone try! LOL Steve |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive |
I recall a package steam generator used on the Disney World walking beam steamboat the only time I was there back about 1970. A guy dressed as a Florentine gondolier "ran" the boat by turning a bigass steam stop valve overhead for no apparent reason and shoving a reverse lever forward to go and hauling it back to center to stop. No idea if the steam did more than provide atmosphere while a diesel did the work. There were experimental water tube boilers in locomotives, must have been good reason why the idea wasn't pursued beyond that stage. dave |
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| Author: | wesp [ Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New steam locomotive - OT Disney Boats |
Dave, The original walking beam boats at Disney World were the real deal - steam powered. There is a website about them out there, somewhere. Wesley |
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