I am assisting the Jimmy Rodgers Museum here in Meridian, MS with a search for information on the specific dimensions and type of wood used on the typical GM&O train order wooden post as it would be found outside a rural station.

The current post (original from the railroad) outside their museum is rotten and about to fall down and they are going to have to replace it very soon, and want to ensure that the original type and style of post is retained. Due to the pitifull condition of the current post we were hoping to locate a drawing or two that can assist us in reproducing the post as accurately as possible.

The post in question is square with beveled edges and tapers down at a point about 5 feet fron the ground.

If anyone out there has any drawings or knows where some might be, we would really appreciate your assistance.

Thanks

I've always been interested in old train order signals, so your project sounds like a very worthwhile one to me, and I'm very glad to hear that you're concerned about getting all the details right.

I live far from Mississippi, but I managed to locate a photo of your project signal on-line: http://www.scenicusa.net/082910.html . It looks like a very nice, very old signal from the turn of the last century.

I also located Meridian, MS, on an old rail map, and I found that it is on the Mobile & Ohio Railroad -- a predecessor road of the GM&O. Given the age of the signal, I'm guessing that the signal was installed by M&O, rather than the GM&O.

I don't have any of the specifics you need, but below is general information on (1) a wooden train order signal pole, and (2) the practice of setting wooden poles.

(1) The signal.

By coincidence, I just bought a blueprint of a wooden-mast train order signal that looks very similar to the one you are restoring. The signal on my print is one manufactured by the well-known coach maker, Barney & Smith. Seeing that maker was a surprise to me -- I had no idea B&S was in the signal business. Maybe the Meridian signal was also made by them? Here are a few views of the drawing that show details similar to what you describe on your pole:

View 1. Pole base:


View 2. Taper in middle of pole:


As an aside, I noticed in the photo of the signal at Meridian, that the blade nearest the photographer needs to be re-positioned: It should be rotated 180-degrees so that the red blade sticks out on the right side of the pole, not the left. Once it's put in that correct position, the little spectacle (which should have a lens in it) will be in front of the lamp when the blade is horizontal.


(2) Information of setting of poles.

Is the Meridian signal pole going to be direct buried (set into the earth), or will it sit on a base?

If it is direct buried, there are things to consider. Part of my professional work involves pole work with a local utility, so I have a bit of information in this area.

For direct buried poles, you need to choose the type of wood, and the type/placement of preservative. You might consider using a pole that has been treated to industry/utility standards for direct burial. Here in the Northwest, a commonly-used utility grade pole is the butt-treated, Western Red Cedar, and a common preservative for the treatment is copper naphthenate. A butt-treated pole might be a good solution to a train order signal pole, since it will give you a paintable, untreated surface above ground. (You would not want a pole treated top-to-bottom with that "CuN" because I think it contains a polar solvent that would leach through paint applied to it).

You might also want to order a treated pole pre-sawn to square dimensions, hopefully close to what you want. The regular, round, treated utility poles are a little over $500. No idea what a sawn (square) pole would cost.

I don't have any information on pole dealers in Mississippi, but just as info, here are some companies in the NW:
http://www.pacificwood.com/
http://www.stella-jones.com/
A similar type of company in MS could offer advice on your application.

One final item is setting the pole. For the utility work that I'm familiar with, after the pole is dropped in the hole, it is back-filled with small crushed rock & sand mix, rather than native soil, just to aid with drainage away from the wood.

Of course, if your signal mast rests on a concrete base above ground, then you can ignore everything I wrote above.

By the way, it occurred to me that the signal mast might be a fun project for the wooden boat artisans down along your coast.

That's all the info I have. Good luck.

Thank you very much for such thorough information.

This pole in particular will be bolted between two pieces of angle iron that are in concrete at the site and no part of the pole itself will be underground, which simplifies things a bit.

The drawing you include is almost perfectly correct for the pole at the museum. Particularly the ladder portion, it is exactly dead on. does the drawing you have show any dimensions for the pole at all, or even examples of its height ???

The levers that went into the building to operate it are not present at all and it has been discussed that reproduction of them would be a great addition to the rebuild of the structure.

I will pass this information on to the folks involved and attempt to get some numbers for htem to work from (dimensional) and will advise further as things progress

Thanks again,

Mick Nussbaum

Glad to hear you don't need to worry about setting a pole in the ground.

No, I'm sorry there are no dimensions or measurements of any kind on this drawing. It also doesn't indicate what type of wood was used. Maybe another member on this forum knows of an identical existing signal that could be measured.

An internet search turned up this restored wooden orderboard at a museum in Chase, Alabama. It looks to be the same style as the signal in Meridian.

http://www.northalabamarailroadmuseum.com/restored.htm

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_vWpBhbmqn1A/TEiyQRrpReI/AAAAAAAABcM/lwnkppZm-MY/northalabamarailroadmuseum0296.jpg