I'm helping research the Pullman 10 section obs-lounge Mt. Ouray and was wondering if anyone might have information, or specifically, a clear illustration of the Pullman 2410A clasp brake truck? I think I have looked through The Pullman Project information thouroughly, which is where the type of truck comes from. I've also done a search on the Yahoo PCL board without much luck (one grainy illustration from the Pullman Catalog). It would be nice to find public domain illustrations if possible. Ted, does the Pullman Library have info on these trucks?

The Mt. Ouray was sold to the Central of Georgia in December 1948 and was withdrawn from the lease back to Pullman in November 1949 before going into roadway service in 1950 (CofGa 32810). At some point it was sold into private ownership and stored in St. Louis. Passing through ownership by a Mr. Hale, the car later went to the Waccamaw Coast Line where roller bearing trucks were placed under it. It was later scrapped in South Carolina. Any confirmation of this, including photos of it in St. Louis and South Carolina, would be helpful.

Is there a specific location on Pullman trucks where the design number is stamped, or was it something that was just supposed to be known by shop forces?

Thanks!

Stephen...

Thought I would offer something on the subject... I have a book ( actually a ring binder ) from the PRR...It is an original PRR shop book with black and white glossy photographs of PRR and Pullman trucks... along with a data sheet showing information on each type of truck found on different PRR and Pullman cars.... In regard to the 2410A trucks, I thought this information shown in the photographs would be helpful.... The color truck photograph is an example of this truck under Pullman ex Nickel Plate business car # 3 ( later known as the Quickstep ) ...

Hope this might be of some assistance


Dean Levin

Yeah, that was my impression, the shop men identified the truck from its attributes. Note in the table reproduced above:

Equalizers - 2410 truck, light weight
Equalizers - 2410-A truck, heavy weight

Ask again on the PassengerCarList, specifically what the difference in the equalizers was... somebody knows. As I recall, the difference is 1/2" in the thickness of the steel the equalizer bars are cut from, but I don't remember the exact dimensions. Keep in mind that the PCL is first and foremost a modeler's list; someone should know the difference, but 1/2" is only .006" in HO scale, imperceptible to the modeler. You need to explain you are researching the prototype to get the folks who can help in the proper frame of mind.

Hopefully the Pullman Library has drawings, but most likely has to pull the drawing list for the specific car to find the drawing; Pullman may not have catagorized generic trucks.

Dean -

Interesting that the data sheet specs don't include weight. We often hear this when a car is asked to be moved; "what are the weight of the trucks?" the prospective movers always want to know.

Les

When RMNE moved 5 Pullmans out of Jim Bradley's back yard in Stonington, CT, the crane had a strain gage which allowed us to accurately measure the weight of the trucks: 26,000 lbs. each truck. Not much difference between 2410 and 242 styles, either.

"Breslin Tower" weighs 56 tons without the trucks, as a point of trivial information...

Howard P.

Stephen,

That would be Bill Hale from Puryear, KY/TN I believe. When he sold the car it was in the St Louis area less trucks. The trucks they came up with for it were from one of the GM&O LW ACF Parlor Cars, cast one piece and timken quad bearings. having looked at the car a few times it always (sadly) seemed like a $.50 railroad car on a $25,000 set of trucks. I do believe that the car was in the group that left Conway and went to The Station at Cedar Yard in Charlotte, NC. It was there that the car went to "Pullman Heaven". That whole affair in Charlotte was sad in that many otherwise decent cars were raped/stuffed and mounted with little saved from their interiors, and ultimately weren't fit for further use when the project folded.

etalcos

Weight

Pullman records indicate that the weight of the 2410A plain bearing trucks under car Circumnavigators Club weigh 22,450 pounds each.

Dean;

That is great data on the trucks. Do you also have information on the Pullman type 1910 trucks? If so could you please post it.

Thanks,
David Johnston

David

the book only has PRR class trucks, and I suspect some Pullman equipment which operated on the PRR.... If you give me the specific truck numbers, I can check the book.. Its a small binder book with each page being about 4" x 5".... very unusual....

here is another example..

the Pullman 242 / 242 A truck


Dean

Keeping in mind that as a volunteer effort we are supported by orders (no external distribution by any means, please) we could supply various original drawing copies of nearly every one of the early Pullman trucks including early wood car trucks (and parts) that you never hear of. The Pullman parts book has sizes and ratings of the springs that distinguish the 2410 from the 2410-A trucks. In some cases we do not have the trucks drawings that you may be interested in. The specifications (1903 - late 20th century) in the files have truck and car weights for each lot (we have the bulk of them). Also it helps to know precisely which car you are interested in as there are variations in wheel base, wheel size, generators and brakes especially in early cars. Just send an e-mail to the Pullman Library including mailing address and phone number and we will try to respond - followup if you do not hear immediately as otherwise it could get lost in the numerous requests. Sometimes we have two views photos of late model trucks in the lightweight era particularly.
Sincerely, Ted Anderson, IRM Pullman Library curator

Thanks to everyone for the prompt reply. Especially to Dean for the photographs/scans and Ted for that information. We are working with trucks that were apparently put under the Mt. Ouray when the Central of Georgia put the car into roadway service in 1950. They look nothing like the 2410A images Dean supplied and have single brake shoes on each wheel instead of clasp type brakes. If we find any numbers on the various castings we may be able to identify them through the Central of Georgia Railway Historical Society archives. They do have pedestal plates marked with "C OF GA", so we're fairly certain they were from a Central of Georgia car, and we were told by the Hale family that these particular trucks hade been removed from under the Mt. Ouray. The trucks have an interesting assortment of journal box lids, though: Alco(!), National Coiled Spring, PULL.-STD. (at least 3 styles) and that's just based on 5 lids I photographed out of the 12!

Etalcos, the trucks we have reportedly came from under the Mt. Ouray, and they were acquired from the Hale family, having been stored in the weeds in Almo, KY for many years. They are now at the Roundhouse Railroad Museum in Savannah and are scheduled to be cleaned up, painted and used as an interpretive display...at least until they find a home under a car.

Dennis, I have not had a chance to post anyting to the Yahoo PCL board but thanks for the heads-up in formulating the question properly.

A photo of the Mt. Ouray would ne nice if anyone has a line on one.

Thanks again!

Stephen,

I'm certain I have some pix of the car somewhere, but getting them in an electronic form is another matter. The trucks you describe sound like 1910 trucks rather than the 2410. I have seen quite a few cars that had 1910 installed where 2410, etc. had been. Single shoe brake rigging/trucks just generally stink from a maintenance standpoint, and I can see CofGa wanting the 2410s for something racking up revenue miles vs. putting around in MofW service.

etalcos

Again, thanks for the replies.

Etalcos, if you have any way of reproducing what you have it would be much appreciated. If you could do prints I can get you a mailing address to get them to me. You are probably also correct that these are 1910 trucks, but this is all new territory to me. Now that we know what some of the options are, we'll be looking for and recording casting numbers and such on the trucks as they are cleaned up. The CGRHS has a CofGa book that will hopefully allow us to ID the trucks.

As an aside, was this car one of the ones that were being brokered by Barnhardt several years ago? I seem to recall a group of derelict, gutted, cars from various railroads, all painted in red oxide primer, that I believe were in North Carolina. I recall seeing one that was an "observation car" but the regular steps had been replaced by stirup steps, something that would have been done to a car in MOW or roadway service. I'm thinking this was perhaps the failed "The Station at Cedar Yard" project mentioned by etalcos. It that was it, I wish I had downloaded and kept some of those Barnhardt web site photos...