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| Illinois Terminal train, "Mound City" https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32083 |
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| Author: | FLO [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Illinois Terminal train, "Mound City" |
An acquaintance of mine has a sign reading "Mound City" that was apparently related to the Illinois Terminal train of that name. It looks like it could have been a drum-head type sign, but I really can't tell. A few questions: (1) Was the "Mound City" train name introduced on the Illinois Terminal along with the new streamlined cars? Looking at a 1950 Official Guide, I see a "Streamliner Mound City", Peoria to St. Louis, trains 90 and 97, as part of the company's "De Luxe Passenger Service" offerings. But in an earlier 1944 Official Guide, there is no Mound City; and train 97 instead has the name, Capitol Limited. (2) Did the streamlined cars on the Illinois Terminal have any sort of train-name signs on them? From my internet searching, I have found only two photos of the streamlined train-sets, and I don't see any evidence of signs with train names. (3) Last of all, does one of these streamlined Illinois Terminal cars survive anywhere? Again, an internet search came up empty. Thanks. |
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| Author: | artschwartz [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Illinois Terminal train, "Mound City" |
To answer your questions in revese order: None of the IT streamliner cars were saved. My recollection is that the train names appeared only on the drumhead signs on the tail cars (parlor - diner - observation). These cars were taken out of service several years (1951) before the other streamliner cars and thus were not photographed as much. As a source, I suggect Bill Middleton's book; Traction Classics, Vol. 2, chapter 17. Some of the IT experts at IRM may have more to contribute. |
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| Author: | FLO [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Illinois Terminal train, "Mound City" |
Nice to turn on the computer Sunday morning and find your reply. Thanks. After reading your reply, I searched again and did manage to find some internet photos of a tail car. The caption of this one says it's car #350, shot in 1954. There's no drum-head sign on it, but I do see attachment points for one. http://www.westernrailimages.com/Illino ... 7452_Ygxsy |
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| Author: | CSontag [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Find Traction Classics Volume II pages 430 |
FLO wrote: Nice to turn on the computer Sunday morning and find your reply. Thanks. After reading your reply, I searched again and did manage to find some internet photos of a tail car. The caption of this one says it's car #350, shot in 1954. There's no drum-head sign on it, but I do see attachment points for one. http://www.westernrailimages.com/Illino ... 7452_Ygxsy Find Traction Classics Volume II: Extra Fast and Extra Fare. It has a whole chapter on the streamliners. Pages 427, 430, 431, & 433 all have pictures of the drum heads. The Mound City sign is on page 430, the City of Decatur is on the others. The Sagamon and Fort Crevecoeur drum heads are not pictured. The Drum head pictures are in b&w and are oval shaped. They appear to have an outer edging of aluminum and they were said to be in blue and silver. Good luck, Charles |
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| Author: | FLO [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Find Traction Classics Volume II pages 430 |
Perfect. Thank you, Charles. I've located the book on Amazon. - FLO |
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| Author: | CSontag [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Apparently they lasted until at least 1973. |
FLO wrote: (3) Last of all, does one of these streamlined Illinois Terminal cars survive anywhere? Again, an internet search came up empty. Thanks. Apparently they lasted until 1973 McKinley Scrap Yard according to this website. http://www.leclairerail.com/gary-ITC.html http://www.leclairerail.com/IMAGES2itc/ ... rsMcKI.jpg Does anyone know why no one grabbed a set at this late time? Was the owner asking a lot? Were they empty shells? Oh well. |
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| Author: | Bob Kutella [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Illinois Terminal train, "Mound City" |
I saw the cars in the scrap yard and even got to venture inside them and snap some photos. Where are those dratted slides now? IRM always wanted to rescue them, and I guess you could say the inside of the cars I saw were 'complete' although certainly trashed. Money was a big issue for IRM then, and still is now for almost any volunteer preservation group. I think at the time the scrap yard guy had visions of sellling for big bucks to someone hoping to place them back into service. Think of the Electroliners and Red Arrow. But the IT trains were WIDE, and had problems going around sharp curves, so sharing a right of way with platforms for narrower cars, and needing tight turns at some point, was never feasible. Some of us figured the price would come down to where it might be affordable, but we never heard back, and one day they WERE GONE. Bob Kutella |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Illinois Terminal train, "Mound City" |
Bob - I often wondered why that IT streamlined train was not saved; the interurban's "last gasp". Now you have told us the story. Thanks much for the explanation. Les |
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| Author: | CSontag [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Illinois Terminal train, "Mound City" |
Bob Kutella wrote: I saw the cars in the scrap yard and even got to venture inside them and snap some photos. one day they WERE GONE. Bob Kutella Any ideas when that day was? I was just wondering how much further after 1973 they were present. |
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| Author: | o anderson [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Illinois Terminal train, "Mound City" |
I tried but failed to see the streamliner cars, I think the year was 1980. I think they were scrapped in 1981. O. |
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| Author: | stlousteve [ Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Illinois Terminal train, "Mound City" |
FWIW...some tidbits...in case anyone is wondering...Mound City is a nickname for St. Louis. Many native American mounds were located in the area and unfortunately most have been bulldozed to oblivion. There is still one remaining on the East side (Illinois) at Cahokia. http://cahokiamounds.org/ Terminal's access tunnel to its downtown St. Louis terminal (under Tucker--nee 12th) was just filled in this year (using Fed stimulus funds). |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Illinois Terminal train, "Mound City" |
Actually the mound is at a site called "Cahokia Mounds" and not Cahokia, Illinois. Both are on the east side of the river from St. Louis, but two different places. Prior to sending the cars to McKinley scrap, the IT stored the streamliners and PCC cars in the St. Louis Subway, now filled in. The cars became targets for vandalism and convenient housing for the homeless. The IT moved the cars out. I have heard that at least one or two transit operators evaluated the PCC cars, but were concerned regarding the damage from their years of neglect in the tunnel. Two of the PCC cars made it to museums. |
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| Author: | Ron Goldfeder [ Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Illinois Terminal train, "Mound City" |
The nickname of "Mound City" for St. Louis is correct. Once there were a lot of them in the area west of the Mississippi as well as the surviving ones on the east side today. All the ones to the west were taken down over the years and none survive there now. |
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