Good Evening, I am new to the forums and would like to ask a serious question about my favorite locomotive. My question is this? What will be the fate of the Canadian Pacific #3101? If the steel scrapper who owns her decides to cut up the locomotive is there any chance of it being preserved? I am not familiar with practices up in Canada as I am a American rail fan living down south in the Carolina's currently.

Second was/is there any plans of the CPR adding this locomotive to the steam program one day? The study done in 2007 was not disclosed to the public and no further mentioning of the plans were forth coming?

Robert

There was rumor of her as a restoration candidate a few years ago. My own speculation would be if the steel company has held on to her since 1960 they probably wont scrap her unless there is some ugly turn of events.

With Hunter Harrison pulling the strings now at CP we'll be lucky to see 2816 run again, let along add a 4-8-4 to the fleet.

I would be skeptical of the 3101 being cut up as scrap metal. I doubt the 4-8-4 will get included in the stable of operating heritage locomotives, but as a potential runner, she's quite attractive.

Jeff, For the most part that post I started did answer most of my questions. However since this site has many individuals who are involved with steam traction and different restoration projects I just thought I would ask here incase someone knew a little more?

I personally believe that 3101 will get some kind of cosmetic restoration at some point. Running order with the changes at CP is anyone's guess?

Now for a real tricky pony. Would the small Jubilee at steam town be large enough to warrant the cost of restoring it? Or would the CP have no real use for such a small locomotive? Maybe side trips on a branch line possibly?

As bad as the 3101 looks the Jubilee in question at steam town is in worse condition by far.

Robert

The Jubilee should go back to a Canadian museum, probably as a static exhibit. She's light, fast, and meant to scamper across flat track with a few cars, at speed. Not an ideal tourist locomotive, but a great design for study in the modern age.

I think the Jubilee should stay right where it is (albeit with a cosmetic restoration), but it would not be ideal for mechanical restoration in any area. Doesn't have the power to pull a fully loaded train (reminder, the train that the Jubilee model pulled for CP consisted of 4 lightweight coaches), which would make any mechanical restoration pointless.

Wait, weren't there TWO different Jubilee type locomotives built for the CP? One was a high wheeled, very fast version, meant to haul short passenger trains on main lines. The other was a lower drivered version for branch line service. I think only the second type was preserved; none of the high drivered examples. Do I have this all wrong? Canadian steam locomotive experts; help needed!

Les

If the Jubilee can pull 4 or 5 coaches would that not be all that some really short short lines could handle? Thus making the locomotive suitable for that situation?

Robert

I'm no expert on this, but what I know is that the five high-drivered (80 inches) class F2a 4-4-4s (3000s) were placed in service in 1936, before the F1a class (75 inch drivers). Like the Milwaukee's Hiawatha 4-4-2, the F2 Jubilees' main rod connected to the first set of driving wheels instead of the second. Hence they were longer than the F1 class (2900s) which had the main rod connected to the second driver instead. As far as I know the F2s were the only CPR engines to be equipped with disc drivers; none survive from that group. Photos of both types are on the Canada page of my Random Steam Photo Collection, http://www.railarchive.net/randomsteam/canada.html. A great source for information about CPR locomotives is Ray Verdone's CPR Steam Locomotives Database, http://cprsteam.org/.

Robert, I think it's simply a mismatch of pulling power versus speed. The Jubilee is meant for short, fast, trains. Most short line railroads with a desire to run steam can't give that particular locomotive the room to stretch out properly. Investing in restoring a locomotive of that design would not allow you to get out of the performance it should deliver on a 12 mile round trip.
A locomotive like that should have perhaps 20 miles minimum in each direction, with the throttle jockey watching his speed track conditions, and stopping distance. Beautiful locomotive, just not a good short line model.

Richard, I see.

Robert