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| NEW YORK OR BROOKLYN ELEVATED RR QUESTION https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32169 |
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| Author: | Paulie62 [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | NEW YORK OR BROOKLYN ELEVATED RR QUESTION |
Hey Folks, Can anyone here tell me what was the gauge of the NY Elevated railway during the years when they ran the forney-style locomotive? Was the Brooklyn Elevated also set up on the same gauge? I know that if I need an answer ,this is the best place to get it! Thanks all! Paul |
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| Author: | Al Stangenberger [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NEW YORK OR BROOKLYN ELEVATED RR QUESTION |
WRM has two ex NY elevated cars (built by Gilbert in 1887) which ran on the Second Avenue El and were originally hauled by steam locomotives. They were built (and remain) standard gauge. When they were electrified in 1903, one truck on each car was changed to a two-motor power truck, and some structural modifications were made to the car body to accommodate that larger truck. The other truck was not changed in any way. |
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| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NEW YORK OR BROOKLYN ELEVATED RR QUESTION |
Steamloco.com gives the gauge of the three NYERR Forneys that survive (sort of) in Alaska as 4'-8 1/2". I've seen them, and they look standard gauge, at least not noticeably NG. Scroll down to the bottom of the page: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/lists/se ... A&state=AK |
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| Author: | Ron Goldfeder [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NEW YORK OR BROOKLYN ELEVATED RR QUESTION |
During the steam powered era all the elevated lines in New York, Brooklyn and Chicago were standard gauge. I will have to check on the earliest cable powered days in New York because I think there was something about their track that was odd but I believe the answer was also standard gauge then as well. I was the leader of the team that cosmetically restored the only elevated railway steam locomotive in any museum, Lake Street Elevated #9, which is at the Museum of Transportation near St. Louis. |
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| Author: | Ron Goldfeder [ Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NEW YORK OR BROOKLYN ELEVATED RR QUESTION |
I did some digging and found that the New York Elevated RR started steeam operation in 1871 using the existing track structure from the failed cable operation, the West Side and Yonkers Patented Ry. The gauge for that was either 4 foot 10 or 4 foot 10 1/2 inches as sources differ on this. For cable operation the girders of the the structure were used as its rails and the cars had wide tires to allow for some variation in the "gauge" of these beams. No cross ties could be used to allow for the cable runing between the beams that provided the means of propulsion. Even with some reinforcing of the structure there were problems due to settling of the columns that supported everything and in April 1875 the line shut down for track reconstruction. The track was replaced using normal crossties and rails which were placed at standard gauge. Wooden guard rails were also installed. The wheels of the cars and few existing locomotives were also changed in gauge. When it reopened later in April there were only a total of eight engines, three of which were newly delivered and built to standard gauge. I hope this info helps. |
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| Author: | Paulie62 [ Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NEW YORK OR BROOKLYN ELEVATED RR QUESTION |
Hey Guys! Thanks for the answers! As always I got what I needed to do my historical walking tour concerning the short line that ran through my town! I only wish I knew which of the NY elevated engines were brought to my town's railway in 1895. I am sure that is a question I will not be able to answer as time has probably swallowed up any paperwork about the resale of the engine. Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the input! best Regards to you all Paul |
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| Author: | Ron Goldfeder [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NEW YORK OR BROOKLYN ELEVATED RR QUESTION |
What was the name of the local short line? There are at least two rosters of New York elevated locos that might answer your question as they have extensive data on who bought them. Of course the loco might have come from Brooklyn where we don't have the same data. And can you post photos of the two locos as Chicago folks might be interested in where their engine went and what it looked like there? |
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| Author: | Paulie62 [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NEW YORK OR BROOKLYN ELEVATED RR QUESTION |
Hey Ron, I am not at home currently and am not sure either in in my personal file The name of the short line could be any of the following 3 options.... Mohnsville Adamstown Electric Railway, Custer Steam Line or Mohnsvile Adamstown Railway. Both engines are posted on the Borough's website www.mohntonpa.org or simple google Mohnsville Adamstown Railroad. On this website is a good profile photo of #2 known locally as '' the coffee box'' The photo is of course a b&w pic taken around 1896 but I can tell you the wooden cab of the engine was painted red I will look to see if these are on my pictures when I get home. Taber's book has #1 picture in it with the info as coming from North Chicago so I am told |
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| Author: | Ron Goldfeder [ Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NEW YORK OR BROOKLYN ELEVATED RR QUESTION |
I looked through the two rosters I have as well as the customer list of a dealer in old locos in the book entitled Locomotives of the Southern Iron & Equipment Co by Tom Lawson and have found no listings of these names. But there were quite a few engines listed as going to other dealers in NJ and PA and the locomotive might have come through one of these. |
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| Author: | Paulie62 [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: NEW YORK OR BROOKLYN ELEVATED RR QUESTION |
Hey Folks I having gone through my files I have found a blown-up picture of the forney style locomotive. I unfortunately don't have either engine in my picture albums but think I am looking at a mid 1880's Porter locomotive. On the front of the Engine stands a child and just above the child's head one can catch a glimpse of the Bulder's Plate which looks like a Porter to me |
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