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Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale spur
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Author:  Sloan [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale spur
http://pottsmerc.com/articles/2011/10/1 ... =fullstory
Author:  daylight4449 [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
With the money, this swedish set in Canada could serve as the start for the whole operation. Just some food for thought, seeing a steamer available for lease was mentioned in that article.
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... Train--NEW
Author:  CPR4000 [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
This is purely conjecture, but I would hope that the "newly restored steam locomotive" might be CNJ 113. I can't think of any other engines in the area which fit that description, that don't already have a home.


Walt L.
Author:  daylight4449 [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
You know, I didn't even consider the 113. That sounds more viable than my original thought.
Author:  ns2110 [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
This is very exciting! I hope it comes to pass as it's only a half an hour from my house and just a short drive from where I work.
Author:  co614 [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
As the article states I recently had the pleasure of hirailing the line and was VERY impressed with its scenic beauty. It's tucked away within a very beautiful valley with several high trestles and many beautiful vistas.

The track is in superb condition and there are very few grade crossings.

The key here is Nathaniel Guests drive and determination. I'll bet that he will see it through and sooner than later you'll be hearing the sounds of steam up through that valley!!

IMHO-Ross Rowland
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
Within about a 50- to 60-mile radius:

Jim Thorpe.
Strasburg.
Wanamaker, Kempton & Southern.
Wilmington & Western.
Middletown & Hummelstown.
New Hope & Ivyland.
The former Blue Mountain & Reading.

I certainly can't wish ill upon any preservationists, but it's just a little hard for me to get especially optimistic about these prospects.
Author:  CPR4000 [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Within about a 50- to 60-mile radius:

Jim Thorpe.
Strasburg.
Wanamaker, Kempton & Southern.
Wilmington & Western.
Middletown & Hummelstown.
New Hope & Ivyland.
The former Blue Mountain & Reading.

I certainly can't wish ill upon any preservationists, but it's just a little hard for me to get especially optimistic about these prospects.


Why not? All of those operations do pretty well, and several do very well.
Maybe there's room for another player well within day-trip distance of the Philadelphia/New York metro area.

Walt L.
Author:  Mike Tillger [ Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
Unfortunately, I believe the CNJ 113 might be a little too heavy and too short of a wheelbase for the wood bent trestles on the line, unless the bridges have been upgraded structurally in recent times. The group restoring the 113 have been doing a great job, hope to see those wheels a rolling soon.

Mike Tillger
Author:  tomgears [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
This is very interesting news. I'm assuming the line is a former Reading Co. route. Is it a state or county owned right of way?
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
The branch in question was founded as the Colebrookdale RR, chartered 1865 and opened September 1869, and leased 1-1-1870 to the Philadelphia & Reading. Tom Taber's "RRs of Pa. Encyclopedia & Atlas" says "Intended evidently as a connecting railroad but only partially built to serve a rural area (iron mines?)."

Barto to Bechtelsville 1.6 miles abandoned 11-22-1965; Bechtelsville to Boyertown abandoned sometime around the Conrail takeover; 8-1-1983 8.5 miles Boyertown to Pottstown taken over by Commonwealth of Pa. and Anthracite Railway assumed designated operation of it and the Kutztown and Pennsburg-Perkiomen branches. The Blue Mountain & Reading assumed operation of the "Perky" in mid-1988, and the Kutztown and Boyertown branches followed under the BM&R in July 1989. The story gets hideously complicated from there on in, with purchases by the county and private concerns, as well as plans for a 3.5 mile extension/relaying of track back towards a quarry in Bechtelsville. The line was last reported as purchased by Berks County in April 2009 for $1.35 million, using money from the county's environmental defense fund.

2008 thread at TrainOrders: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... ?2,1663778

Current operator appears to be a contractor/operator from the Midwest, using what sure looks like an ex-C&NW MP15.

If you have a LOT of time to kill, there's this EXTREMELY lengthy thread at Railroad.net, with LOTS of local newspaper articles, photos, and whatnot (this puts you only halfway through the thread):

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 7&start=60

Photobucket album of photos along the ROW, some back to the Reading days: http://s1001.photobucket.com/albums/af1 ... 1QQtppZZ16

[Warning: "Schuylkill Valley" heads-up/warning, though he does appear to provide good photos and little "quarry" discussion!]

It probably does not hurt the cause of the line's preservation, economically or historically, that there's an active Pottstown & Reading Chapter of the NRHS, whose newsletter is actually named The Colebrookdale Local!
Author:  EDM [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
Not to be another wet blanket, but I would also be concerned with the proximity to the other tourist lines listed. I find it interesting how Black River and New Hope have survived, right across the river from each other. Without the tourist draw of New Hope and the outlets in Flemington, I suspect each would have been fallen flags long ago.

An associate and I took a look at the Colebrookdale line, on behalf of a client, a few years ago when it was still in limbo. We came to the conclusion that it would need to have both freight traffic and a tourist business to become viable. And that conclusion was made when the economy was much healthier.

As far as using a steam locomotive goes, we were suggesting using a diesel switcher, similar to that early and much rebuilt SC that was on the property at the time. I'm not the track guy, and don't have his notes, but isn't the rail 85 pound? And as Mike had mentioned, there are a LOT of bridges on the line. True, they add to the scenic factor, but greatly bump up your maintenance costs.

I seem to recall reading that CNJ 113, if thats the engine in question, was one of the heaviest 0-6-0s built. As Strasburg found out a half century ago, unless your track is perfect, a six-coupled switcher will make your track less-than-perfect in very short order. Even then, you have higher maintenance costs than with a diesel, (which is true with just about any steamer, to be honest).

I wish Mr. Guest the best, but think it will be an uphill battle, between the location and the economy.
Author:  G. W. Laepple [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
My question is where a parking and station facility would be located in Pottstown. The line comes into the northwestern corner of the city, crosses Route 422 on a bridge and connects to Norfolk Southern's busy Philadelphia-Reading main line. The train is certainly not going to the original station in Pottsown, that's for certain. And the neat little yard in Boyertown was torn up to provide more parking in that town, so all that's left is a runaround track, often occupied by freight cars.

I operated freight trains on this line for about 3 years, and it certainly is scenic, but making it into a tourist railroad is going to be a tough job. There are no other attractions in the area to draw people, and Pottstown has a pretty rugged reputation that will certainly scare some suburbanites.

The track is in fairly decent shape, or at least it was 12 years ago when I left. There are three wooden-bent trestles and a fairly steep grade for most of the length of the line as it climbs out of the Schuylkill Valley. The rail is mostly 90-pound. Historically, in the early 1950's, the bridges were upgraded to accommodate larger steam power than the I-7 and I-8 2-8-0's usually assigned, but then diesels arrived. The last passenger service was a Saturday-only mixed that ended around the same time.
Author:  junior [ Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
EDM wrote:
Not to be another wet blanket, but I would also be concerned with the proximity to the other tourist lines listed. I find it interesting how Black River and New Hope have survived, right across the river from each other. Without the tourist draw of New Hope and the outlets in Flemington, I suspect each would have been fallen flags long ago....


Quite honestly, New Hope and the BR&W are not directly across from each other. BR&W has not run into Lambertville since the late 90s, and even then, it was only special events, not regular service. The last "regular service" was held down by the 4666, which goes to show the ridership was just not there. It's a drive to get to Flemington from New Hope or the Philly Burbs if you're not specifically going to the Railroad and Ringoes is such a backwoods area for the average tourist. BR&W's main draw I'd bet are from Locals and their kids out for a fun day.

NH&I does not greatly benefit from the Town..in fact, the town can actually be considered a downfall for the Railroad as they have been at odds with each other for years. Back in the late 80's, there was talk of moving the base of operations to Buckingham, to take people INTO New Hope, as it was seen as a better way to target riders and eliminate an ongoing dispute with town fathers, but it never panned out. One look at the numbers boarding in Lahaska (which has plenty of FREE parking) will show you, people don't ride the train to get to the town. They ride it to RIDE IT.

On the average day, sure, they may get a hundred true tourists out of say 500 riders, but their big numbers come from NON tourists - locals from Bucks, Phila and Montco who come for specific events, like Christmas, Dinner and Song and Story hour trains and even just a weekend ride.

It would almost be safe to say that tourist to NH&I are like Railfans are to EBT, they are some of the income, but locals with dedication and general interest (kids) are the primary source of income.

When you look at what the town draws in comparison to what the NH&I carries (80,000?) for a 7 day a week operation, the numbers don't show the town as a source of riders. People come to the town for the town, not the train and visa-versa. There are days when the town is dead and yet the Railroad will be busy, and again, visa-versa.

Location is the key... Look at the Wilmington & Western. If you took it and compared it to the Boyertown operation, they are nearly identical. The W&W is located in a decent TRAFFIC area, but NOT a tourist draw to be found for the AVERAGE family and not really a decent neighborhood ...its sketchy around the shop area, depending on what side of the tracks you're on and the station area is OK, but surrounded by average apartment buildings and the backsides of shopping centers and there is even a women's prison just a few hundred yards up the hill from Greenbank station... but once it leaves that station area, it enters a scenic route that makes you forget you're in one of the flattest states in the US.

The draw for the W&W is the ride and what they offer events wise. If this person can drum up the keys to the business model for the Colebrookdale line, then they can make it... I would not suggest he expect to turn a profit from it though.
Author:  tomgears [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pottstown, PA/Tourist train proposed for Colebrookdale s
Junior makes some very good observations about some of the regions tourist railroads. It is a shame that New Hope and Ivyland has not been able to leverage the New Hope town tourism, it seems to really be two different demographic groups of people.

I feel that a new operation in Pottstown would not take away from or suffer from low ridership because of the number of other operations in the area. Pottstown seems to be on the upswing after loosing hundreds if not thousands of decent industrial blue collar jobs for the last few decades. A new tourist railroad might have a fighting chance there for sure.
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