Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....

Built for North Western Coal and Navigation (nee Alberta Coal and Railway Company, nee Canadian Pacific) in 1885, this 36" gauge 2-6-0 Mogul was one of three purchased by Canadian Pacific in 1907 for use in constructing the Spiral Tunnels on the west side of Kicking Horse Pass. When the new alignment was put into use in 1908, this steam engine and tender were scrapped of reusable parts (wheels, lamp, etc.), then otherwise abandoned here, in what is now the middle of the woods, where it has rested quietly for over 100 years now.

Not even lost enough to be rediscovered. I seem to recall, when vacationing in Field twenty or twenty five years ago, that the official park literature had some mention of the abandoned locomotive that had gotten loose on the grade above Field and was left in the woods where she landed.

From the present position of the remains, and the fact that the boiler has separated from the frame, it doesn't look like she was upright when she ended her last run.

Seeing photos like this make me wonder if...
There would be enough parts there to justify rebuilding the locomotive with replacement castings or fabrications,
and then if...
the owners of the engine would allow it to go to a new museum group,
and then if...
anyone was motivated enough to do it.
I know the WW&F are slowly building their own 2' gauge 2-6-0 from brand new castings.
Stuhr Museum was going to build a 3' gauge early Western locomotive but probably never started.

There was a thread on RYPN years back that said making for commercial sale a new straight-boilered small Baldwin, offered in either standard or 36" gauge, might be a viable project. Maybe it would be, however there are more economic and operational factors that are figuring in now. I thought of that thread looking at this engine, but realized it does not have the straight boiler configuration.

O. Anderson

Dennis Storzek wrote:

That's a much better photo than the one I have, but here's the locomotive's information

http://steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive ... splay=1845

Enjoy

I have been following this story off and on for some years.
http://njscuba.net/sites/site_locomotives.html
The engines seem quite small. I wonder what gage they are, or if anybody has checked.

The first one is a personal favorite (but still doesn't beat the supposed Camelback sunk in a swamp behind a Long Island McDonalds...)

http://gothamist.com/2011/01/17/19th_century_steam_locomotive_disco.php
http://www.brooklynrail.net/BuriedLocomotives.html

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:51 am ]
Post subject:	Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
... but does THIS count as a "lost" loco discovered? http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=378478 Quote: Built for North Western Coal and Navigation (nee Alberta Coal and Railway Company, nee Canadian Pacific) in 1885, this 36" gauge 2-6-0 Mogul was one of three purchased by Canadian Pacific in 1907 for use in constructing the Spiral Tunnels on the west side of Kicking Horse Pass. When the new alignment was put into use in 1908, this steam engine and tender were scrapped of reusable parts (wheels, lamp, etc.), then otherwise abandoned here, in what is now the middle of the woods, where it has rested quietly for over 100 years now.

Author:	Mike Swanson [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
More like "rediscovered" or "finally recorded for posterity" as that location looks like it's been visited by quite a few hikers over the years; it's probably well known to locals and others who've hiked through there, but they've kept quiet about it to keep vandals and metal thieves from messing with the remains.

Author:	Brian Norden [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
I think the existence of the remains was mentioned in the roster section of the book Narrow Gauge Railways of Canadian, by Omer Lavallee. Book was published in 1972. Too late (11:20pm) to go look at my copy of the book.

Author:	Dennis Storzek [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
Not even lost enough to be rediscovered. I seem to recall, when vacationing in Field twenty or twenty five years ago, that the official park literature had some mention of the abandoned locomotive that had gotten loose on the grade above Field and was left in the woods where she landed. From the present position of the remains, and the fact that the boiler has separated from the frame, it doesn't look like she was upright when she ended her last run.

Author:	steaminfo [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
Dennis Storzek wrote: Not even lost enough to be rediscovered. I seem to recall, when vacationing in Field twenty or twenty five years ago, that the official park literature had some mention of the abandoned locomotive that had gotten loose on the grade above Field and was left in the woods where she landed. From the present position of the remains, and the fact that the boiler has separated from the frame, it doesn't look like she was upright when she ended her last run. That's a much better photo than the one I have, but here's the locomotive's information http://steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive ... splay=1845 Enjoy

Railway Preservation News https://www.rypn.org/forums/

Well, it's not underwater in a quarry.... https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32256	Page 1 of 3

Author:	o anderson [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
Seeing photos like this make me wonder if... There would be enough parts there to justify rebuilding the locomotive with replacement castings or fabrications, and then if... the owners of the engine would allow it to go to a new museum group, and then if... anyone was motivated enough to do it. I know the WW&F are slowly building their own 2' gauge 2-6-0 from brand new castings. Stuhr Museum was going to build a 3' gauge early Western locomotive but probably never started. There was a thread on RYPN years back that said making for commercial sale a new straight-boilered small Baldwin, offered in either standard or 36" gauge, might be a viable project. Maybe it would be, however there are more economic and operational factors that are figuring in now. I thought of that thread looking at this engine, but realized it does not have the straight boiler configuration. O. Anderson

Author:	Mike Swanson [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
o anderson wrote: Seeing photos like this make me wonder if... There would be enough parts there to justify rebuilding the locomotive with replacement castings or fabrications, and then if... the owners of the engine would allow it to go to a new museum group, and then if... anyone was motivated enough to do it. I know the WW&F are slowly building their own 2' gauge 2-6-0 from brand new castings. Stuhr Museum was going to build a 3' gauge early Western locomotive but probably never started. There was a thread on RYPN years back that said making for commercial sale a new straight-boilered small Baldwin, offered in either standard or 36" gauge, might be a viable project. Maybe it would be, however there are more economic and operational factors that are figuring in now. I thought of that thread looking at this engine, but realized it does not have the straight boiler configuration. O. Anderson Restoration for display purposes is certainly possible; it wouldn't be cheap, but if one can prove the historic significance, it might be possible to get the funds. Ownership may not be an issue if the park officials are willing to let it be moved to an appropriate location for restoration and display. Of course, just generating interest in the idea won't be easy...

Author:	survivingworldsteam [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
steaminfo wrote: Dennis Storzek wrote: Not even lost enough to be rediscovered. I seem to recall, when vacationing in Field twenty or twenty five years ago, that the official park literature had some mention of the abandoned locomotive that had gotten loose on the grade above Field and was left in the woods where she landed. From the present position of the remains, and the fact that the boiler has separated from the frame, it doesn't look like she was upright when she ended her last run. That's a much better photo than the one I have, but here's the locomotive's information http://steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive ... splay=1845 Enjoy I also have the locomotive, complete with photograph, in my Surviving World Steam Locomotive database. I would classify any steam engine stripped of usable parts and left in the woods like this as "lost", but this one and others were never really "forgotten." I was told about a locomotive seen first-hand in the woods of Louisiana many years ago; sounds like a Manhattan RR Forney that was probably used by the Garyville Northern Railroad, and abandoned in place. It was in a grove of trees, you would have to be on top of it to see it. The person who saw it was child at the time and does not know exactly where it was; his father is too old to make a trip to the woods to locate it; so that one is truely "lost" for now. There is also said to be a Shay locomotive, also operated by the Garyville Northern RR, in Hope Canal n. of Garyville, but AFAIK it has not been sighted. Some old logging cars and track from the same railroad is visible back in the woods.

Author:	weekendrailroader [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
I've heard a rumor of an abandoned Shay locomotive hidden somewhere in the woods north of Monroe, WA, near Wagner Lake. Upon further investigation, several old maps do show the "Wagner and Wilson" logging railroad in that area, along with a sawmill on the shore of Wagner Lake. Records also show that Wagner and Wilson did own at least one Shay. Of course, figuring out exactly where the logging grades ran is the hard part, because (1) The grades changed over the years, (2) Logging railroads did not make long, straight grades, big cuts, or tunnels which help in following old grades in aerial imagery, and (3) a lot of the old forest has succumbed to suburban sprawl. But who knows, it may still be out there...somewhere.

Author:	FLO [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
Re: Lost steam locomotives In about 1980 I spent a week or so with another kid on tiny Hernando Island in BC, Canada. The kid's mom said there were rumors of a steam locomotive lost in the woods. I recently googled "Hernando railroad" and sure enough learned there really was a small logging railroad on that island.

Author:	Ron Travis [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
I have been following this story off and on for some years. http://njscuba.net/sites/site_locomotives.html To me, this seemed like a very exciting find, but I fear that that particular interpretation is largely missed by almost everyone involved in this. There is much lament that the locomotives are in bad condition. There is also acrimony over the arrest of the site. Some say the locomotives are completely stripped, and since the arrest prohibits removal of artifacts, the arrest is not needed. But the arrest does not prohibit diving on the engines, so why complain about it? And despite claims of the locomotives being stripped hulks, I have seen photos of brass items that were removed. The reclamation and stabilization/preservation of these two locomotives seems to be deemed out of the question for a whole host of reasons, if they are valid. The engines seem quite small. I wonder what gage they are, or if anybody has checked. I also wonder if they weigh 35 tons each, as has been reported. They may or may not be stripped, but they are definitely missing parts and/or detached from parts. I suspect they may only weigh 10-15 tons each, if that. This link is a year or two old, so maybe the news today is better. Otherwise, it looks like these two identical, ancient locomotives are well on their way to a crass ending.

Author:	Ed Kelley [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
The first one is a personal favorite (but still doesn't beat the supposed Camelback sunk in a swamp behind a Long Island McDonalds...) http://gothamist.com/2011/01/17/19th_century_steam_locomotive_disco.php http://www.brooklynrail.net/BuriedLocomotives.html

Author:	JimBoylan [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
Ron Travis wrote: I have been following this story off and on for some years. http://njscuba.net/sites/site_locomotives.html The engines seem quite small. I wonder what gage they are, or if anybody has checked. At one of Dan Lieb's lectures, 5 feet was mentioned, but measured over the marine growth. They are the largest examples of that wheel arrangement, which used for smaller locomotives.

Author:	daylight4449 [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
Ed Kelley wrote: The first one is a personal favorite (but still doesn't beat the supposed Camelback sunk in a swamp behind a Long Island McDonalds...) http://gothamist.com/2011/01/17/19th_century_steam_locomotive_disco.php http://www.brooklynrail.net/BuriedLocomotives.html Did they ever take those engines out, or are they still there?

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Author:	Ron Travis [ Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Well, it's not underwater in a quarry....
Regarding the two engines in the ocean off the coast of New Jersey, I cannot find anything more current than the link I posted above. I wonder what the current status is. Have the plans to recover these locomotives been given up? The linked story mentioned that it has been a mystery that the locomotives were standing on the bottom rather than being sunk into the bottom. They are standing on the bottom with space beneath the boiler and frames as though they were set down on a concrete slab. Yet the bottom is just sand. The article said that they have solved that mystery by discovering that the engines are sitting on a big iron grating like a pallet, and that is hidden just beneath the sand. That seems like a rather interesting discovery. I wonder how the engines are attached to that framework, and if there is one big frame with both engines attached, or one frame for each engine. It appears that these engines were not lost in a shipwreck, but rather intentionally dumped or lost overboard in a storm. The fact that they are on what would seem to be a big shipping pallet would seem to suggest less likelihood of being accidentally lost and more likelihood of them being intentionally dumped.