Was watching Emporer of the North Pole this morning. I was wondering if any of the cars that made up the consist of train #19 made into preservation after the film. The wooden caboose looked like a nice piece at the time.

"Emperor of the North pole",

The entire RR (most of it) and the #19 made it into preservation as the "Skunk train", California Western. They had bad financials 10 years ago, I'm not sure about their well being now.

Here it is; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbI91jFazsA

When that program comes on network TV again, would someone please post here, I'd really like to watch it again!

A#1 rides #19 today!

Actually, most of the equipment used in the movie was scattered about after the demise of the OP&E.... I'm not sure what, if any of the equipment went to the California Western, but I can certainly say; NOT the 19.

The 19 went to serve life on the Yrewka Western and now is in limbo again since most of that RR is being removed or sold off...if I'm not mistaken, the 19 was for sale. The 18, which was seen in the back shop scene, is now operating on the Virginia and Truckee.

The #5 (2-8-0 used on the Passenger Train in the Movie) was donated and moved in 1978 to the Moody Foundation, related to the Galveston Railroad Museum in TX, along with most of the freight cars (including caboose) and did operate at one time there, but now is a static display.

Not sure where all the SP subs used in the Passenger train went and yard scenes went.... I've read that most were scrapped, with a few sold, but not sure to who?... possibly also to the YW....

The movie has been on DVD for a while now. I watch my copy probably every few months. Back when you had to wait for a movie to come on TV, my parents would plan around showings of this movie for me growing up (they were old-school parents and didn't cater to their kids, but they knew when things really meant something to me brother and me and would do nice things like this). I didn't understand the movie much as a little kid, but oh, those train scenes. The film is the "Citizen Kane" of train movies, in my opinion...

Are you sure in the roundhouse scene that #18 is the prop? I thought it was also #5.

If you search, there is a website on the OP&E, and many of the photos show abandoned freight stock in the weeds, and I think I recognize the movie freight cars. Particularly a wood sheathed boxcar with NP herald.

I have read conflicting explanations of #19's fuel in the movie. In the movie, it has automatic firedoors and a very realistic coal firing sequence. Today the engine is an oil burner. Someone suggested they shoveled coal in over the oil flame.

When I was a volunteer at the Mount Rainier Scenic Railroad I was told the the three suburban coaches they have were used in the movie.

Additionally, the tank car seen behind the 19 in the opening of the movie ended up at the Port of Tillamook Bay and is still in Tillamook.

I should have waited on the Westeners to answer this one.

#18 definately did not appear in the movie, it never left Yreka during the years the #19 operated in Oregon. OP&E did have a couple non-operational steam locomotives on the property that could have been used in the shop scenes...otherwise, it would have been the #5 or #19.

And, I too don't think anything in the movie ever ended up on the CWR- but I could be wrong. CWR's mikado looks fairly similar to the #19, but is a good twenty or so tons lighter and shares little otherwise in common with the #19.

The bulk of the movie was filmed on the Oregon, Pacific & Eastern out of Cottage Grove, OR, though a number of scenes (the tall trestle scene amongst some others) were filmed on the Spokane, Portland & Seattle's Vernonia branch.

OP&E purchased six SP commute coaches when they started operations of the tourist train in 1971. These coaches only lasted maybe two years, as by the end of 1972- or immediately after the film crews departed- the railroad retired them and purchased replacement equipment. The most definitive I have heard is that OP&E sold some of the cars and scrapped some others, but I too remember being told somewhere along the line that a couple of the OP&E cars ended up on the Mt. Rainier Scenic.

Finally, it appears both the #5 and #19 burned oil...don't know how that worked in the movie...

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV

Wasn't sure about the 18 in that scene....I should have said "thought"....you're most likely correct that it was the 5, since that engine had 3 different numbers on it for the movie - 4, 5 and 27.

Is it possible that they removed the oil bunker from the 19's tender and used the tank car as the source of Oil and just filled the tender with Coal? I realize there is the one scene where the 19 is cut away, but otherwise, the tank is always just behind the engine, even after picking up the pipe loads.

...just a thought?

FWIW, the movie is in the Netflix library.

I remember it from TV as a kid, enjoyed it very much again. I wince everytime the fireman gets injured, even when I know its coming.

In regard to the fuel used on #19, since it is a western engine, it likely has always been an oil burner (I really don't know its history, maybe it was originally a coal burner, from the east/mid-west and moved west later). But the fire doors shown in the movie certainly aren't what would normally be found on an oil burner. I suspect that they filmed the firing sequences on another engine, elsewhere.

Or, they could have done something like was done in Campo. Back in 1998 or so, we filmed a music video using our oil-burning SP 2353. But the movie people wanted a coal-shoveling shot. They put a pile of mesquite charcoal on top of the oil bunker, so the distance shots looked like we had a full coal bunker. For the close-up coal firing shots,they actually made a backhead out of a sheet of plywood, which they simply braced into a vertical position on the ground. Then they built a charcoal fire behind it, and took shots of shovels of charcoal being thrown onto the fire. As I recall, the "backhead" didn't even have a fire door, just an open hole. Didn't really look that bad in the final video.

The question of whether #19 was burning coal or oil in the movie came up a lot during the early days of the RyPN Interchange and other discussion boards. Back then, I had my theories (wrong as usual!), but in the end someone familiar with the locomotive posted the "final word" on the subject. The post (cut and pasted below) is from 1999 and was from someone named Jeff (Badger??).


Ok guys here is the final word on the Emperor of the North and engine #19. Coal was scattered around the top of the tender and on the tender deck. The Tender is the original to #19. During the film it was still oil fired, only the fireman was seen shoveling coal into the firebox. The butterfly doors were a temporary install from the recently acquired 2 truck Shay from Graham County/Bear Creek Scenic Railroad #1923, which is also at the Center for Transportation Museum in Galveston, Tx. If you look closely at the scene in the movie where the Fireman gets burnt, you will see the firing valve and stand with several notches on it keeping the fire going! Plus the atomizer lines etc. are all there. (Use Freeze Frame) Hope this clears it up. The movie is one of if not THE best railroad film still!<p>BTW, The Sierra #3 always burns oil, even when Hollywood fireman chuck in a shovel of coal or a stick of wood!<p>Jeff<br>

Regards,
Jim Robinson

I wish someone could nail that down, in regard to which cars they are and what their numbers were in the movie, if that's accurate...

Jim Baker wrote:

"In regard to the fuel used on #19, since it is a western engine, it likely has always been an oil burner (I really don't know its history, maybe it was originally a coal burner, from the east/mid-west and moved west later)."

Baldwin built the #19 new for an Arkansas logging railroad- builder's photograph strongly suggested it burned coal. The locomotive spent some time working in various Mexican mining operations afterwards, where it was converted to oil. McCloud River purchased the machine in January 1923.

Jim Robinson, quoting the earlier Jeff, said:

"The Tender is the original to #19."

Actually, this too is false. Better to say something along the lines of the movie people did not swap tenders out and piled coal on top of the oil bunker, or something like that. McCloud effected a couple tender swapping in their later years...the tender behind the #19 today (and in the movie) is originally from McCloud's #18. The #18 today has the tender originally built for McCloud #17 (Baldwin 2-8-2, purchased from Silver Falls Timber Company or Oregon); #19's original tender went to scrap in 1955 along with McCloud's #16.

Lastly, p51 stated:

"I wish someone could nail that down, in regard to which cars they are and what their numbers were in the movie, if that's accurate..."

To which I reply- none of the resources I have go into this much detail. Perhaps the only place this kind of information might be preserved is in corporate files of the OP&E (if any still exist) and/or possibly MRSR, if any survive from there. Otherwise, rumors/speculation/heresay is all we really have to go on...

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV