For years the Northern Ohio Railway Museum has used Roundup to control growth on our tracks, graveled parking area's and large outdoor parts storage areas. It has worked fairly well controlling grass and other grass like plants. What it has not work well on is any woody growth including my hated favorite, THORNS!

We are looking for something with more punch than Roundup, but with out the lethality of products like the now banned Agent Orange.

So we were wondering what herbicide other museums and tourist railways use for vegetation control? Keep in mind any product suggested needs to be one that can be purchased without having to possess any special certifications to purchase or use. Brand and vendor suggestions are welcome.

Thank You.

Steve Heister
Northern Ohio Railway Museum

When I worked at an auto recycling yard in the South end of Lorain, Ohio in the 1970's we had three goats that helped to keep the weeds down! Trouble was they escaped out through the open gate and the Lorain police had to herd them back to us several times. Also they got into some of the cars and ate the upholstery, they liked the recycled rag padding that was under the seat covers. What was amazing was that somehow they had a truce with the junkyard dogs that we had.

To keep your costs down and to buy more effective chemicals I would highly suggest one of your members to get a pesticide/herbicide application permit. They are fairly easy to obtain through your local county extension agent. They can also assist you with selection of chemicals that work with your particular areas local fauna.

In Ohio these are actually part of the Ohio State University, they have full access to their studies and can provide you with actual data on what works and what doesn't.

When I was a teenager my parents farm was used in some of trials of a product called Stinger to eradicate thistles from strawberries and other fruits and vegetables without killing the fruit. My oldest brother works for OSU and manages their research farms, this is how we were selected for the trials.

We have dealt with a 20-mile ROW, and additional yard areas, for 20 years. We spray for weeds every year, and brush every three-four years. The brush spray gets the wood stuff. A licensed railroad vegetation control contractor does the work.

I would strongly suggest that using a professional, with all the necessary equipment, permits, chemicals, etc., would be a good move.

Talk to some of the contractors who are active in your region. They may be quite willing to make a deal with you, based on left-over material, spraying when nearby on another job, etc.

Howard P.

I'll second Howard's recommendation to contract the work out.

The Western Railway Museum also has about 20 miles of track to spray (we only run on 5 miles but we keep it all clear.).

In addition to chemicals and permits, having the right equipment is crucial. Previously, our volunteers would use a small spray rig (about 300 gallons) pulled by a speeder. It took quite a few trips back to the yard to refill in order to spray the 14 miles from the museum to our UP connection at Cannon. Our contractor has a big hi-rail spray truck which can do that job in two fillings.

Also, getting volunteers to come to the museum on short notice when the wind conditions were right for spraying was a problem since most of them have real jobs.

Lastly, our contractor guarantees the work and will come back and re-spray if necessary.

[edit: Thanks to building our most recent car house, we also now have a large fire water tank and hydrant so that we can quickly fill the contractor's spray truck. When we did it ourselves all we had was a garden hose.]

At the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum, we do our own weed control, in no small part because our broad gauge track doesn’t play well with the standard gauge hy-rail trucks used by vegetation control contractors. Also, with our frequency of operation, getting track time for a contractor is difficult. We have a lot better control over the mix of schedule and weather doing it ourselves. Fortunately, we only have two miles of main track to keep clear.

We spray twice a year. Once in the spring and a touch-up in mid-to-late summer.

For chemicals, we use the generic equivalent of RoundUp (glyphosate) coupled with 24D (2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid). This combination gives us a fairly broad spectrum coverage - that is, what one doesn't get, the other does. There are some small areas where we only use one or the other, given what's actually growing there. You can do a web search on both chemicals for more details.

We also mow grassy areas alongside of the tracks so that the vegetation there doesn’t go to seed, with the seeds blowing over and “re-infecting” the ballast areas. This also helps keep grassy areas from evolving into brushy areas, which in our region means multiflora rose bushes - locally known as "jaggerbushes". Ouch!

We think our efforts are pretty successful. Check us out on Google Maps and see if you agree. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2069139 ... a=!3m1!1e3

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.

Steve, I sent you a PM.

Thanks,

Rob Gardner

Roundup is cheese, but it is legal in most states to apply yourself without an applicator's permit on your own land (or your members for your organization). Roundup is awesome because the patent has expired and so lots of people make cheap knock-offs... However it kills an ever decreasing number of plants as they develop Roundup resistance.

You will not believe how much better your RoW will look when you use an actual, quality herbicide. You will swear off Roundup for good. We've had very good luck with Arsenal in the past.

However - seriously - research hiring the weedspray done. I did that on a lark, fully expecting it to be prohibitive. And was astonished at the numbers I heard - hiring the contractor was actually cheaper than buying quality chemical in small quantity.

That said, I'm all in favor of self-spraying the shoulders of the railroad out 15-40 feet with a broadleaf killer. You want grasses to stabilize the soil, but want to stop weed encroachment, woody scrub and young trees that, unchecked, will eventually scrape the sides of equipment and undo your brush crews' work and turn your railroad into a "tunnel of brush". SMRS has areas that brush crews cleared 4 years ago that still look good due to intervening spray. 2,4-D is cheap and safe (except that the concentrate is extremely acidic and will burn and blind). By doing it yourself, you are able to selectively spray where it matters to you, preserve desired foliage (e.g. work around the stars of your wildflower train), concede neighbor concerns, and make second sprays on demand, which means you are able to use less chemical overall.

Using contractors over applying herbicide yourself eliminates a major problem. Record keeping and certification. Depending on which state you live in and the type of land and adjoining properties involved, the regulations involved can be onerous to people unfamiliar with the process. Also the fines (and legal costs) will be extremely costly.

As an example, in Massachusetts, railroads must used licensed or certified persons to apply herbicide. Connecticut is contemplating a bill to give 21 days notice before application. I can't even imagine what California does.

The tree-huggers are out there (no dispersions cast) and if your organization is under the watchful eye of the public, be very careful that your methods meet all regulatory approvals.

Hydrogen peroxide you can use it anywhere even in wetlands just don't get any on your equipment.

Be careful and very considerate of your neighbors when spraying or having someone else spray your property. In Texas you as the land owner are responsible no mater if you spray yourself, or hire a professional to spray for you. Any damage suit will have your name on it as the property owner and defendant.

I have 100 small red oak trees growing since early 2013. In the Fall of 2014 all the leaves curled up on my oaks and most lost all their leases. Luckily it was Fall and they struggled back last spring. My neighbor had a company spray his fields that were about 1/2 mile away and directly up wind from me the day before my trees crumpled. It was 2-4-T and other ingredients. Spraying in that field has killed, on my property 1/2 mile away: 50 large pecan trees of 20-40 years old, another crop of 200 new oak trees, and numerous old growth oaks and elms, and maybe 100 native post oaks, that were scatters around my property.

One thing to remember. The chemical companies put specific scents into their sprays so they can be identified by their specific smell. if you are down wind and you smell that identifier, you are getting over sprayed with the chemical. If the scent is there so is the chemical.

The land owners have to control their overspray, no matter the reason or damage that is a result.

There is a sprayer cover in use that is optional here in Texas , its called a "bonnet". that It wraps around the spray rig and allows more of the spray to reach the ground. It also costs about $10. Please use those.

If you annihilate all the gardens and home nurseries within a mile of your ROW, you are going to make an army of enemies in just a few days of spraying a year. Its a daytime nightmare to see your year of work dead from ignorance and just not caring about the random damage that haphazard spraying can and does cause. Think about how your neighbor is going to think of your RR if this happens to him...

Be Extremely Careful! You should be shaking from the shear weight of the responsibility of replacing every tree, plant, shrub, on all the neighboring properties, every time you spray those mass killing sprays.

And you if that doesn't scare you, think about the over spray on your neighbor, the organic farmer!

You get to reimburse him for 5+ years of lost production.

-Hudson

There are alternatives to chemical spraying, but each have their drawbacks. Someday these non-chemical alternatives may be mandatory if current herbacides are banned. A couple of links that provide information on the subject:

https://www.alaskarailroad.com/sites/de ... S_CORP.pdf

https://outside.vermont.gov/agency/agri ... %20Way.pdf

The Exporail track department has used a contractor for approximately 10 years now. The company does all the class 1 and regional railways in the area. They take care of permits etc., and they use the REAL stuff for the never ending weed fight. Because the big customers come first, and the weather plays tricks, we have to be flexible when it comes to scheduling.

Depending on the nature of your installation with respect to access to your trackage by the spray truck, you have to plan on switching out equipment as well as hand spraying. The hand spraying will cost more. Streetcar girder rail and tight curves are not conducive to standard hy-rail equipment. Another factor that helps save time and money is if you can get the same spray crew to come in, as their familiarity with site particularities helps considerably.

In a somewhat related vein: what are your anti-critter (ie raccoons, etc.) strategies?

Hope this is of help.

Kevin R.
Exporail, The Canadian Railway Museum

Would somone familiar with its use as a defoliant tell us about the use of hydrogen peroxide. I've never heard of it being used for anything like that, but it sure is sure is interesting. Maybe it could be used in place of water as the carrying media in variuos spray recipes. Hum.