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| SP Steam. Where is it? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32559 |
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| Author: | rbd3985 [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | SP Steam. Where is it? |
Found this picture at an antique shop in Georgetown, TX. I am trying to figure out where it was taken. It is of the Southern Pacific's Train #5, the westbound Argonaut. It is being pulled by SP/T&NO GS-1 #707. Where do ya'll think this might be at?  ~Ricky Dolifka Austin, Texas |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
If it indeed is the Argonaut, that puts it somewhere between New Orleans and Los Angeles, inclusive--the train ran over the Sunset Limited route, but at a slower schedule. |
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| Author: | David Johnston [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
Is it El Paso? |
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| Author: | rbd3985 [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
I don't think so since El Paso's depot is on the south side of the tracks. I'm thinking it is San Antonio but there are no platform covers. ~Ricky |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
Phoenix, Arizona? It is/was on the north side of the track. How many digits in the locomotive number? If only three it is probably on the Texas lines. T&NO numbers were always under 1000. |
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| Author: | rbd3985 [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
3 digits. Engine # is 707. I looked at that too. Was told the #5 didn't go thru Phoenix, instead it went thru Maricopa. According to the Signor's book on the T&NO the GS-1's came west of El Paso to Arizona for one year, that being 1952 after T&NO dieselized. They were then renumbered into the 4400 series according to the 1953 SP roster. |
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| Author: | Tim Gautreaux [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
I vote for San Antonio. When I rode the Argonaut in the fifties we had to walk a good ways back to the station waiting room. Seems like we had to cross a track as well, and I don't remember any covers. It's not New Orleans, Houston or El Paso. |
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| Author: | Mike Swanson [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
That looks more like a multi-platform "train shed" in the background, which would narrow the location down to a few major terminals. Could be San Antonio or even Houston, for that matter. Judging from the clothing, the photo had to have been taken in the late '40s to early '50s; that probably doesn't matter much in determining the location, though. |
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| Author: | elueck [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
Since it is westbound, the station building (on the left) has to be on the north side of the tracks. That eliminates Houston. |
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| Author: | dinwitty [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
 I sharpened the image up, really took out the softness. The clue is look at the left, if you are able to zoom that in, (ctrl-mousewheel) should help, looks like a powered cart engine out there. I think a station building is -just- out of sight on the left. My first reaction guess was Phoenix, I rode Amtrak on the Southwest Chief and they would stop there for maybe half an hour, you could get off take pics, buy things at the vendors, but the station was a little further distant from the tracks. Not that familiar with the areas, so can't help much but the pic sharpen. Is that a highway overpass in the back or maybe a station shed? |
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| Author: | Mike Swanson [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
Now that I'm more awake and have looked at the photo again, I'm beginning to think that "shed" is really some sort of road overpass or walkway. It's hard to tell from the photo, but it also looks like the near track ends a few hundred feet east of the camera. Hmmm... |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
dinwitty wrote: My first reaction guess was Phoenix, I rode Amtrak on the Southwest Chief and they would stop there for maybe half an hour, you could get off take pics, buy things at the vendors, but the station was a little further distant from the tracks. Methinks you are confusing the ATSF's Chief and Albuquerque, NM with the SP's Sunset Limited and Phoenix? |
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| Author: | Robby Peartree [ Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
Hi Mr. Ricky Dolifka The picture is probably San Antonio. In the book Texas & New Orleans by A.D. McLennan he states the Argonaut was steam until 1952 and that several of the GS-1s were transferred to the Pacific Lines after the dieselization of the Argonaut. Having grown up in El Paso I can tell you there was a great effort to keep both Texas Lines and Pacific Lines activities largely separated during this time and this included rolling stock locomotives transferred from one to another. The transfer of rolling stock was rare for many years due to Texas Law about a Railroad operating in Texas begging incorporated in Texas. Most locomotives were renumbered at El Paso as they were transferred. The GS-1s were typically assigned to work from San Antonio west to El Paso where the grades were more challenging. East of Houston they were prohibited due to track structure and the grade between Houston and San Antonio was easily handled by smaller wheel arrangements. I want to encourage anyone with an interest in the SP operations in Texas to get the book as I know Mr. A.D. McLennan and I know the level and detail of his research skills. Robby Peartree |
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| Author: | rbd3985 [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
So it was suggested to me on the O Gauge Railroading forum it was suggested to me to look at the schedule of the Argonaut to see when and where it arrived during daylight hours. I looked at schedules for the Argonaut in A.D. McLennan's book on the Texas & New Orleans for 1952 and 1953. I was also gave a link to one online for 1955. All of them show that the Argonaut arrived in San Antonio from Houston at around 4:00am. So unless it was really late the day it was taken this can't be San Antonio. These schedules also leave me stumped because they show the Argonaut bypassing Phoenix and going thru Maricopa. T&NO GS-1's did not venture west of El Paso until they were transfered to the Rio Grande division of the Pacific Lines (El Paso to Phoenix) in 1952. According to SP steam rosters I found that the GS-1's were renumbered into the 4400 series by 1953. So unless the Argonaut was re-routed for some reason thru Phoenix instead of Maricopa it can't be Phoenix. But if it is, it has to have been taken in 1952. So, to make a long story short, I'm still stumped on this one. Thanks for everyone's input on this mystery! Hope you all have a safe and happy holidays! Ricky Dolifka Austin, Texas www.trainweb.org/ttat |
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| Author: | dinwitty [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SP Steam. Where is it? |
There may be some topicalgraphical maps to look at, must be an overcast day nobody is casting a hard shadow. There are some tall buildings in the background so has to be near a major city. |
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