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| Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32692 |
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| Author: | wctruboat [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
Simple question...I understand the process of tire replacement, etc. I know that it's normal to replace the tires with brand new tires. However, I know that it was common practice at one time to build up new material on the old tires, and true them down to normal size. Is this allowed by the FRA with today's regulations? |
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| Author: | filmteknik [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
Common practice? |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
Never heard anything about building up locomotive tires. Tried it once with an air compressor shaft and it did not go well. |
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| Author: | jim templin [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
wctruboat wrote: Simple question...I understand the process of tire replacement, etc. I know that it's normal to replace the tires with brand new tires. However, I know that it was common practice at one time to build up new material on the old tires, and true them down to normal size. Is this allowed by the FRA with today's regulations? I really don't think you know this. It has never, ever been common practice in the United States to build up locomotive tires by any method I know of, and it certainly isn't legal, now or ever. Laminations in autogenous welding methods today wouldn't produce a suitable product, and certainly wouldn't back then. Tires were and are made with enough material that they can accept quite a bit of wear and reshaping through their service life. I have seen tires welded onto the wheel center (on the an ATSG engine, no less), but nothing like building up and turning down. |
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| Author: | Mgoldman [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
So long as we're talking about replacing tires on steam locomotives... Why such a difficult task - heating and cooling metal rims with a ring of fire when it would seem much easier and quicker to simply bolt them on from the inner hub. ?? /Mitch |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
Wheel centers (both driving and trailer) were commonly built up in backshops, after the old tires were removed. One common setup was a driving wheel lathe with an early version of a wire-feed welder attached. Driver centers could be pounded out-of-round in service and this was a way to repair that defect. Once built-up, the wheel center was turned to a true diameter and new tires were applied. I suspect that shrink fitting of tires resulted in a much tighter job, and one not dependent on bolts to hold fast (and not work loose). Howard P. |
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| Author: | wctruboat [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
Judging by the comments, it's obvious to me that it's nor normal, or even an accepted practice at all. I ask the question because it has come to my attention that this technique (if you could call it one) is used today by a standard gauge steam operation in the eastern US... |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
wctruboat wrote: Judging by the comments, it's obvious to me that it's nor normal, or even an accepted practice at all. I ask the question because it has come to my attention that this technique (if you could call it one) is used today by a standard gauge steam operation in the eastern US... 1) Are they building up the driver center or the tire with welding? 2) Have you seen this done in person? 3) What is the source of your information? First hand (personal observation) or third hand (railfan buddy told me that he knows a guy who said.....) 4) Are you sure that you have all of your facts straight? Could they be building up other parts of the locomotive with welding, just not the tires? |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
OK, now I'm scared..........deceptively simple question, perhaps. If this is becoming part of accepted practice in common knowledge, we may be in for a lot of trouble. I've seen some tires built up on narow gage lightweight industrial equipment, and that made me uncomfortable but it was lightly loaded and slow......can't imagine anybody knowingly building up tires on standard gage traditional locomotives, or on cast wheels for that matter. dave |
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| Author: | DBH [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
I built up & turned down rail wheels on a couple of "Trackmobiles" back in the mid 70's. I have seen where mine cars wheels were grooved so bad that a band was welded around the wheel then turned down to the correct profile at the mine I worked in near Silverton CO. Dave H. |
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| Author: | elueck [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
There is a set of driver tires at SFHM that has a piece of 1/4" thick steel welded all around the inside of the driver tire, so that it fits a driver center that is 1/2" diameter smaller than the driver center on which the tires were originally mounted. In other words, they took a set of good tires off a locomotive that was being retired, and by welding the strip on the inside of the tires, they were able to use those tires on a locomotive that had slightly smaller driver centers, rather than buy a set of new tires. This was done on a logging railroad (not in ICC or FRA service and back in the 1950's) Although this is not exactly the same as the previous discussions, I was wondering if anyone knows if this is legal today or has been done. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
I'm not a welding engineer, but I am under the impression that welding on the tire in any form introduces stresses that can lead to critical failure under load. I'd have buuilt up the OD of the center rather than the ID of the tire......a different kind of metal, and all nicely held together with that shrink-on band. I've seen centers come out of service for tire changes, and split into chunks when the tires were removed. We need to be careful. dave |
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| Author: | David H. Hamley [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
Welding is routinely used in the mining industry (and others) to build up wheel treads and flanges. I've been the process being done at Lyons Industries in Ebensburg, PA. The process was described as "submerged arc welding" and is done to both wheels of an axle assembly at the same time using an automated setup. While this practice is specifically forbidden on interchange freight equipment on common carriers I'm told it is common in industry where any exposure to the public is minimal. Pennsylvania Trolley Museum is trying this process on a trial basis. Two worn wheelsets of one of our dump cars were restored, both on the wheel treads and on the axle ends, by building up with weld and machining back to the desired contour. This was done several years ago and thus far the wheels involved have shown no indications of distress. This car sees minimal mileage and never carries passengers. The cost was considerably less than providing new wheels and axle. Whether we would extend the concept to any other rolling stock will depend on the long term success of this trial. |
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| Author: | Nigel Anthony Hewer Day [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
On carrying wheels I have seen spiral welding but its only second best and when economics are taken into acount/ relitive to life expectancy then its a waste of time. On powered wheels such welded serfces would be ripped off with the forces involved and has been seen on even non powered but braked wheels. |
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| Author: | DBH [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Replacement of Steam Locomotive tires? |
The muck trains at the mine I worked in never traveled over15 MPH & the trains were equiped with straight air brakes. Never heard of any problems with the welded up wheels while I was there. When I worked in a machine shop during high school we built up lots of pump shafts with weld & machined them for the canning companies in town. We also did Spray metalizing of shafts to build them up for machining DBH |
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