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| RPO riders? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32843 |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RPO riders? |
One of the members at our museum has digitized his old train photos and has put out the originals in a box so that anyone that is interested, can take them. I was going through them this past Saturday and I found a photo of a blue painted car with the lettering UNITED STATES MAIL and under that RAILWAY POST OFFICE. What was interesting is that in the six side windows shown, there are people shown in four. It looks like the car had been fitted with seats, at least in this window section of the car. Unfortunately, the photo only shows this center section, neither end, so no other lettering or numbers and nothing in the letterboard. There is a slim yellow (gold?) stripe at the top and bottom of the car, and the roof is in silver (peeling) paint. My thought is that this is a Lousiville & Nashville RPO, but I guess it could be Wabash, or some other railroad that painted their cars blue. I asked the guy who took the photo of the car and he didn't remember where it was taken as he had visited a lot of rail museums through the years. So, two questions: 1. Does anyone know of this museum that put seats in an RPO for passengers, and if so, what is the original railroad and car number? 2. Are there any other museums that have done this with one of their RPO's? Thanks. Les |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
Les, I am only aware of two L&N full RPO cars surviving into preservation: #1100- This one was bought by old Steamtown, and I have seen photos of it on 1970s Steamtown excursions in Vermont. So, it was used on the train. Steamtown restored it in the 1990s and I believe it is on display in the roundhouse. It was used in excursion service, so it may be this car. #1107- The other L&N RPO was used in MOW service for a bit, then was at the Bluegrass Railroad Museum, until it was sold to the group in Bowling Green, KY. It is now beautifully restored and on display. This one was never used in excursion service. Also at BGRM is a combo baggage RPO car that also came from MOW service. It had the small 15' compartment. Later, the L&N turned it into a full baggage car and plated over the small windows. It only had one or two side windows. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
wilkinsd wrote: Les, I am only aware of two L&N full RPO cars surviving into preservation: #1100- This one was bought by old Steamtown, and I have seen photos of it on 1970s Steamtown excursions in Vermont. So, it was used on the train. Steamtown restored it in the 1990s and I believe it is on display in the roundhouse. It was used in excursion service, so it may be this car. #1107- The other L&N RPO was used in MOW service for a bit, then was at the Bluegrass Railroad Museum, until it was sold to the group in Bowling Green, KY. It is now beautifully restored and on display. This one was never used in excursion service. David - Thanks for the info. I looked up these two cars on the internet. The six side windows on #1100 have three closely spaced windows, and 3 separated windows. This is different from the car in the photos which show 6 separated windows. My guess is that #1100 is not the car. Actually, the car in the photos looks more like #1107, except that the car in the photo has an arch roof, not a railroad roof like that car. I should also say that there is the possibility of more than 6 windows as the edge of the photo ends right at the sixth window. I'm not saying there are more than 6 windows, only that there could be. Anyway, thanks again David, but no cigar. The quest goes on! Les |
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| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
It seems to me that the Wabash had a number of coach-baggage-mail combines, could it be one of these cars? the mail section was likely short, 15', and the passenger end would have had windows. Come to think of it, the C&O had a bunch of this sort of car, built with arch roofs in 1930 by St. Louis Car Co. Could it be one of these? |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
Dennis Storzek wrote: It seems to me that the Wabash had a number of coach-baggage-mail combines, could it be one of these cars? the mail section was likely short, 15', and the passenger end would have had windows. Come to think of it, the C&O had a bunch of this sort of car, built with arch roofs in 1930 by St. Louis Car Co. Could it be one of these? Dennis - Without having a photo showing the two ends of the car, I just don't know for sure. The car might be a baggage/RPO, but I doubt that it's a coach-baggage-RPO because the six windows in the photo seem to take up too much of the car. Also, I don't think that they would have printed the United States Mail and Railway Post Office lettering directly under the coach seats would they? I am familiar with the 1930 St. Louis Car Company cars as a couple of them were regularly assigned to the passenger train that once ran through North Judson on the C&O. Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum tried to get one of those cars (later sold to the Soo Line ending up in MofW service on the CP), but CP wouldn't move it for us on its own wheels. The U.S. Mail and Railway Post Office lettering on those cars was squeezed into the 15' ends of the cars when on the C&O and later on the Soo. Les |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
wilkinsd wrote: Les, I am only aware of two L&N full RPO cars surviving into preservation: #1100 #1107 Also at BGRM is a combo baggage RPO car that also came from MOW service. It had the small 15' compartment. Later, the L&N turned it into a full baggage car and plated over the small windows. It only had one or two side windows. David - While doing some searching on the internet in an effort to try to figure out what RPO might be in my photo, I ran across another L&N RPO/baggage. This one was L&N #156 and was sold to the Columbus & Greenville (not sure when). It still exists today on display as C&G #30 behind C&G 4-6-0 #178 in Propst Park in Columbus, Mississippi. The car only has three side windows. I don't know the size of the RPO compartment. Didn't know if you were aware of this former L&N RPO or not. Les |
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| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
Generalized identification of standard postal apartments (what they were called by the Post Office) by window arrangement: 15' apartments had a single window next to the door on each side of the car, unless the car had an arch roof, then they tended to have two narrow windows (perhaps because the RMS didn't think roof ventilators were the equal of deck sash?) 30' apartments tended to have three windows on each side, sometimes with a fourth between the door and the end of the car. 60' apartments (almost always the full car) usually had six windows on each side, which could either be two groups of three, or evenly spaced. Since you don't think this was the coach section of a combine, it looks like you are looking for a full length postal car, which should narrow your search some. Is it possible that the car was being used as the "recording car" on a trip, like baggage cars were sometimes used? |
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| Author: | Rpobill [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
There is a Santa Fe coach/RPO (15 feet) in Escondido Grape Day Park. The RPO is at the end. Can not remember how it is lettered. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
Dennis Storzek wrote: Since you don't think this was the coach section of a combine, it looks like you are looking for a full length postal car, which should narrow your search some. Is it possible that the car was being used as the "recording car" on a trip, like baggage cars were sometimes used? Dennis - Thanks for the explanation of the size of the RPO "apartment" and how the side window arrangement would indicate whether 15', 30' or 60'. Great info! In my initial posting for this thread, I stated that it looked like the car had been fitted with seats. But it is also possible I guess that it could have had tables installed instead. The folks at the windows are definitely seated. So coach seats or chairs at tables would be my guess, rather than being set up as a recording car. But then, I am still just guessing. One other thing; I thought that this might have been an "easy" identification. How many heavyweight RPO's after all, were converted? But nothing immediate from RyPN readers. Which I find curious. That leads me to think now that the car in the photo my have eventually deteriorated and been scrapped, or may have had a fire sometime in the subsequent years, and been scrapped (or not). Anyway, I still have hope of an identification. Les |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
Les, Thanks for the tip on the C&G car. It appears to be an ACF product, wood car, steel frame and now steel sheethed. Is there a way you can post the picture? As for those C&O 1930 SLCC cars, they ended up seemingly everywhere. I believe the CGW had a combine or two from that order, one of which is at IRM and in the process of being repainted. |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
Rpobill wrote: There is a Santa Fe coach/RPO (15 feet) in Escondido Grape Day Park. This is one of three such cars that the Santa Fe had. My understanding is that these cars built in 1929-30 were originally used on the Los Angeles -San Diego run. One of these (#90) became a branch-line combine (#2542) in 1942 and scrapped in 1965. I seem to recall that the car in Escondido was once used by a model railroad club and a sister car was at Oceanside and also used by a model railroad club. I cannot find any information as to the numbers of these two other cars; I believe they were 91 and 92.The RPO is at the end. Can not remember how it is lettered. The Santa Fe Historical and Modeling Society's books on coaches and on the head-end cars have not addressed these cars. The Smithsonian has a number of Pullman negatives of builder's views of car #90. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
wilkinsd wrote: Les, Thanks for the tip on the C&G car. It appears to be an ACF product, wood car, steel frame and now steel sheethed. Is there a way you can post the picture? As for those C&O 1930 SLCC cars, they ended up seemingly everywhere. I believe the CGW had a combine or two from that order, one of which is at IRM and in the process of being repainted. David - I myself don't have a photo of Columbus & Greenville RPO #30 that is there at Propst Park to post. I'll see if I can relocate the one I saw on the internet. As for the CGW (ex-C&O) combines, I am not sure that they are from that same 1930 SLCC order. They may be, I just don't know for sure. Actually, IRM had two of those CGW cars at one time but I think one was sold or traded and I am not sure where it currently resides. Les |
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| Author: | nictd1000 [ Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
Les, The Steam Railroading Institute of Michigan (PM 1225) owns former CNW 462, ex CGW ? nee C&O ? The Illinois Railway Museum, has CGW 4061 (Ex 285) listed on their roster and a photo album of this car is available on their website. Comparing photos of the two cars, they appear to have the same window arrangement and trucks. Ryan |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
nictd1000 wrote: Les, The Steam Railroading Institute of Michigan (PM 1225) owns former CNW 462, ex CGW ? nee C&O ? The Illinois Railway Museum, has CGW 4061 (Ex 285) listed on their roster and a photo album of this car is available on their website. Comparing photos of the two cars, they appear to have the same window arrangement and trucks. Ryan Ryan - Thanks. These ARE sister cars and the one at SRI in Owosso, Michigan is apparently the one that was sold by IRM. However, these cars were built by Pressed Steel in 1931 and are different than the RPO/baggage/coach cars built for the C&O by St. Louis Car Company in 1930. Les |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RPO riders? |
wilkinsd wrote: Les, Thanks for the tip on the C&G car. It appears to be an ACF product, wood car, steel frame and now steel sheethed. Is there a way you can post the picture? David - Here is the photo of C&G #30 (ex-L&N #156) that I had found on the internet: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=476069 Sorry for the delay in posting it. This car is part of a display of old Columbus & Greenville equipment and is pictured over 5 years ago. At least some of the stuff in that string have been recently restored; wood cupola caboose #503 (ex-Southern #X-893) and possibly 4-6-0 #178. I don't know if RPO #30 and the two old heavyweight coaches (one ex-Mobile & Ohio and one ex-Southern) have also been restored. Perhaps someone has some more up-to-date photos, or can advise if these three heavyweight passenger cars remain in the same condition as shown in the referenced photo. Les |
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