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Large Dimensional Timbers
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Author:  Jeff Ramsey [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:29 am ]
Post subject:  Large Dimensional Timbers
The Railroad museum that I a affiliated with in the future will be needing to purchase some large dimensional timbers in the dimensions of (4" x 8") and (4" x 10") and in the lenghts of (30') and up to (42') for center, intermediate and outer sills to be used in the restoration of some of our narrow gauge rolling stock. Does anyone know of any good suppliers or wholesalers that can accommodate such sizes at a reasonable rate? I know there are many institutions thas use laminated lumber for such applications but some of us feal the real deal is better.

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Author:  b. barry [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
Find your local sawmills. They can probably cut what you need or point you in the right direction. Your height and width dimensions are not a big deal for any mill its the length that gets difficult, you have to find sombody with a long enough carrige.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
It's been my personal experience that some of the best suppliers, if not THE best, for such unusual wooden timbers (well, unusual in this modern day) are your local steam thresher and "steam historical societies."

At least three such groups I have seen--I know Williams Grove (Pa.), Rough & Tumble (Pa.), and Md. Steam (Md.), have had semi-permanent or permanent sawmill demonstrations erected at their sites. And these sawmills are not just cutting up random scrap wood. Oh, no. The operators I've seen are bringing in large, seasoned logs, looking at the order specification on the clipboard, taking the first cut or two, surveying the grain and knots, adjusting the sawmill carefully, them cutting anything from custom barn timbers for the Amish to black walnut and cherry planks for furniture crafters. I've watched one of these "demonstration" sawmills spend all day cutting special-order wood the old-fashioned way.

Your biggest problem will be finding the trees or wood to cut. But I'm convinced that if you find the "right" steam thresher group, they'll have the practical knowledge to assist, for a fair price, and it'll be exactly what you want, to the best of anyone's ability.
Author:  o anderson [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
I caution about using unseasoned wood in car construction. Even fairly well-seasoned newly cut wood probably has residual moisture in it. Please be conscious of this fact and don't be so dilligent in painting your wood that you coat all sides of the boards. It will need to breathe and weep out the moisture. Or just rough-cut it and set it in drying piles for several years. If you read some of Eric Sloan's books, you might realize the techniques needed to correctly stack and rotate your drying piles.

Otherwise you will experience wood that mysteriously rots because the residual moisture inside never gets to leave and it festers.

One way to guarantee you have great straight timbers is to salvage old wood. Old barns, warehouses, and grain elevators can be a great resource. IRM salvaged large beams of tight-grained southern yellow pine from a 120 year old grainery recently. You cannot find this wood anymore as those forests are gone. Sustainable forestry of that kind of wood really needs to consider the entire ecosystem, and not just plantation style fast-growth. However that requires a period of time and land management which most corporations are not willing or patient to commit.
Author:  JimBoylan [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
In the 1970s, when the moveable Philadelphia, Pa. trolley museum was looking for a replacement wood side frame for its long open trolley car, we were told that large lumber that long isn't made in the U. S. of A. any more. But, if we were in the Far East, we would find that big trees are so common that they use them for blocking in ocean going ships. It was a few years before someone thought of going to the docks in South Philadelphia and picking up a discarded 45 foot long stick of mahogany of the right cross section before it could be cut up and sent to the dump.
Author:  Randy Hees [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
Call your local industrial lumber yard. If they are not interested, call the next. Big sticks are still available, but not generally stocked. The folks at Home Depot and similar stores only know what they carry. Independents can order almost anything.

Hull - Oakes mill in central Oregon can and does still cut pieces over 100' in length. ((541) 424-3112. You are likely to have to use Douglas Fir (historically called Oregon Pine) Douglas Fir was the framing lumber of choice on the Pacific slope... an 1870's mill spec for the US Navy (who then still had wooden warships) said that good douglas fir was the equivalent for ship repairs. Hull-Oakes cut timbers for the last restoration of Constitution, so the Navy is still turning to Douglas Fir.

The Hawaiian Railroad Society recently sourced 40' timbers to rebuild a OR&L Co 2nd class car. They called Hull and Oaks who referred them to a local (in the Islands) source. Once they knew who to ask it was just time and money.

Big sticks are not available kiln dried. You have to take what you can get, then if needed let them sit properly stacked, covered or inside... Historically, many car builders did use green lumber. They didn't like it but did.

Good luck
Author:  Paul D [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
Jeff,

Look for the yards or suppliers trhat work on high $$$ residential or commersial projects. They seem to have the best handle on what mills can produce the timbers you need.

We have had good luck with:

http://www.specialtywoodproducts.net/index.php?s=1

And they're in your backyard.

You will have to stack dry anything you buy as the cost to kiln dry would be astronomical. The last time we ordered it was here in under a month from the mill via LTL freight.

Paul
Author:  Bobharbison [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
Hull Oakes is totally cool, and a good source.

Another option in the Pacific Northwest is the Spar Shop at the Grays Harbor Historical Seaport.

Granted, you probably aren't in need of a new mast (too bad, since they do amazing work!) but they also do dimensional lumber in lengths over 100 feet long. I've toured the shop, and it's obvious they take great pride in what they do, and craft each piece with care and precision. In fact, they told me the only complaint they've had is from a movie company, who said the stuff look too nice. "Can you rough up the next load, leave some chatter marks, that sort of thing? We want it to look old..."
Author:  Loco112 [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
Your location?
Author:  J. Rufus Phogbound [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
There are many wood suppliers that are dealing with the dismantling of factories and industrial buildings look for ads in Fine Homebuilding magazine or on the net. Much of this is well seasoned and old growth unobtainium wood. You'll have to pay a premium perhaps as you'll be competing in the market with those who want to be "green" and are willing to pay lots to feel good.
Author:  RCD [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
Image
Author:  J. Rufus Phogbound [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
Re: Hoadley's book.

While I have not seen "Identifying Wood" by Hoadley, I do own a copy of "Understanding Wood" also by him. I first bought the book while running a fluidized bed waste wood converter that was feeding a York Shipley boiler to generate steam for operating lumber drying kilns. I was looking to understand the drying process to enable me to work with the kiln operator more efficiently. I can not say enough good things about the wealth of knowledge contained in it. Anyone who works with wood, from lumber to fine finish wood can benefit from "Understanding Wood", it deals with controlling and designing for wood movement, drying processes and some species identification. As with any trade, understanding the material you are working with improves your quality.
Author:  Paul D [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
Loco112 wrote:
Your location?


Michigan. The larger size was 8"x12"x32'. They were cut from several trees. The timbers as recieved were freshly cut too. It is my understanding that many of the mill try to leave as much "prime" timber standing untill untill ordered. When the wood warmed up the pitch started running.
Author:  Adam Phillips [ Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
Most of USS Constitution is oak and new material is harvested from Constitution Oak Grove at Crane, In.
Author:  Jeff Ramsey [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Large Dimensional Timbers
I found tonight of a good supplier of large rough dimensional timber known as Casey's Lumber Inc. that can be contacted at caseylumber@yahoo.com whos lenght can be achived at 42' with the predominant material being Douglas Fir, but other woods can be cut. Contact Dan "Bubba" Casey Jr. at P.O. box 5069 Woodland Park, CO 80866, (719)687-6707.
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