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| How Would You React? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33277 |
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| Author: | steaminfo [ Wed May 09, 2012 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How Would You React? |
It isn't April. April Fool's Day is nowhere in site. That having been said, I would like to encourage you all to await (with bated breath, I guess) an announcement due around the 20th of May that ATSF 3464 (an 84" drivered Hudson in Topeka, KS) has been donated to an organization that plans to do the following with it:
The goal apparently, is to replace all passenger locomotives with this high tech steam locomotive. I got this from a friend in Kansas who said that the donation occurred in October or November of last year, and that the locomotive would be moved to begin the process in 2012. Their budget for this festival is said to be $5.2 million of which they plan to raise $3.8 million themselves, with the remainder coming from some University's R&D budget. I have a LOT of reasons to believe that the foregoing is an accurate representation of what is going to happen. So, with tongue firmly in cheek, I propose that this new, ultra-modern, ultra-efficient steam locomotive be christened "Dr. Frankensteam's Locomotive" |
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| Author: | ebtmikado [ Wed May 09, 2012 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
Wasn't a similar proposal made a few years ago, regarding 614? I may be mistaken, but I think Mr. Rowland was involved... Lee |
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| Author: | ebtmikado [ Wed May 09, 2012 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
Here's a link to that 1984 project, the ACE 3000: http://www.alternatehistory.com/discuss ... p?t=166229 Lee |
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| Author: | Mike Stillwell [ Wed May 09, 2012 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
Replace the boiler, replace the running gear...why not replace the frame too and just call the whole thing a new from scratch? Steam locomotives didn't just loose to diesels because of fuel and efficiency, it was because of the maintenance and the frequent stops/human input needed to keep the running gear lubricated and in good working order. Much as I love steam, I'd rather see 5.2 mil go into helping a number of groups return some traditional steam back to operating status. Mike Stillwell Buena Vista, VA. |
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| Author: | Pegasuspinto [ Wed May 09, 2012 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
What is being used off of 3464 then? Tender can't be anything special, running gear and boiler and probably cab being tossed in trash, not much left and that part would need to be refurbished too..what possible reason to not start new? Also, isn't there NOT a 3464 in existance? 3463 seems alive, but the last of her class. I've had the same idea in my mind, put all that is known into building a new, fast steam locomotive that is in concept similar to what we know as a steam loco (no steam turbines, for example), probably titanium running gear, counter-rotating balancing perhaps, best drafting and steaming boiler possible, etc etc...and 130mph would just be the first test run lol. If you're gonna do it, smoke the existing records by a margin that justifies them being held for what? 70 years?! I'm pretty sure the end result wouldn't be more efficient or practical then a diesel of the same capability, but it would be the coolest steam toy in the world..... Robert |
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| Author: | sbhunterca [ Wed May 09, 2012 2:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
If this were to take place, I'd be pretty interested. Modern technology can take much of the frequent maintenance out of a locomotive, and they could be designed to allow far faster repairs. Who knows? If they find the bucks and have a well qualified team, I'd say give it a shot. Just don't scrap the parts removed from the old girl. As far as the money is concerned, this is money going toward engineering/ scientific research, and will never be directed toward preservation as we know it. The people who would fund this aren't interested in the smoke- belching, maintenance- intensive machines we know and love. There are far worse things to spend it on than conducting experiments in modern steam technology with an eye toward bringing it back in a service where it could yield better results than current diesels. Let's see what, if anything, happens! Steve Hunter |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Wed May 09, 2012 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
Quote: Equip it with a modern high tech boiler As far as the actual quality of the boiler.... Most experts agree that boilers manufactured today are actually not as good those manufactured in the past. As far as high tech.... The technology of turning water into steam has not really developed that much in recent years. Quote: Equip it with modern, light weight running gear I am going to go out on a limb here and say that there are only a handful of living people who can actually engineer this with any degree of success. Quote: Add a gas producer combustion system and computerized firing controls The industrial burner system installed on 2100 was such a flaming success. I'm not saying it can't be done, but don't count on it unless someone who really knows locomotives is engineering it.Quote: Make it more efficient than a modern diesel electric locomotive That will never happen.Quote: Set the world's speed record for reciprocating steam locomotives Boy I hope the guy who designed the running gear got it all right.Test the thing at 130 mph at "the Pueblo Test Track" I'm remembering the plan a few years ago that someone was going to restore a Big Boy for a major motion picture. |
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| Author: | brettcog2000 [ Wed May 09, 2012 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
tomgears wrote: The industrial burner system installed on 2100 was such a flaming success. I'm not saying it can't be done, but don't count on it unless someone who really knows locomotives is engineering it. This is where I chime in and say that if the burner hadn't been mounted on the firing table pointing right toward the rear tube sheet....and the grates still in and just covered over with a piece of plate steel then covered with refractory cement....and if it had arch brick (at least when I was in the firebox it didn't).....if they had actually mounted the burner right....and didn't have to use an underpowered booster pump (that pump sitting on the deck nect to the firemans seat)....it would have worked in theory. But now we'll never know. |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Wed May 09, 2012 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
Sounds like squandering a priceless artifact to prove something unworthy of test. For the money allegedly being put up, build something from the ground up, from scratch, so when it fails miserably, the loss is only in dollars. |
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| Author: | Mark Z. Yerkes [ Wed May 09, 2012 4:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
Agreed. If you're going to spend that much money on the project, just have a new one built. It's not hard and probably will end up being cheaper. |
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| Author: | Ray Reter [ Wed May 09, 2012 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
ebtmikado wrote: Wasn't a similar proposal made a few years ago, regarding 614? I may be mistaken, but I think Mr. Rowland was involved... Lee Yes, you are correct. A commercial VHS tape was made of some of the test trips the 614 made pulling freights and an Amtrak passenger train. Every once in a while I play the tape for the shear enjoyment of watching the 614 and some spectacular scenery! -- Ray |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Wed May 09, 2012 5:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
Just a crying shame. So many other worthy rail causes and this money going to waste. Modern high speed passenger rail is 150 mph plus. To pretend it would be steam hauled is just delusional, even before discussing the maintenance economics. On freight, diesel will rule because of its superior traction at crawling speed. |
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| Author: | Charlie [ Wed May 09, 2012 5:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
I agree with Richard and Mark. And I'd suggest sending the specifications over to China and have them build it. They have the capability and most recent experience in building steam locomotives. As for a reaction, I'll reserve that until I see the thing running. And if anyone is taking bets... |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed May 09, 2012 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
I hesitate to even consider adding facts, but: a gas producer combustion system is coal technology, and has NOTHING in common with the oil burning system of dubious value in the T-hog. China has built steam of about 1930 era technology, nothing newer apart froom some construction methodology details. A Lima superpower berkshire clone would be a giant step forward for them. A South African engineer worked on an abortive plan to modernize Chinese steam but the project was politically discarded back about 30 years ago. South Africa ditto. Even Latin America.........places where steam made sense. But, OK, the current state of the oil market blah blah. A fine team of expperienced British engineers is ready to start designing a modern replica of a historic British design - or anything else, if you make them a legitimate offer - using the proven best practices available in today's technological universe. Their dream project was put on hold very recently. I don't see this as being more likely here using an existing carcass from a practical perspective, but I'd love to see it tried. dave |
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| Author: | RSwinnerton [ Wed May 09, 2012 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How Would You React? |
Ok everyone. Back to reality. Not gonna happen. Let's not kid ourselves. *facepalm* Russ |
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