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| "The 611's Last Run" https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33332 |
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| Author: | railfan261 [ Sun May 20, 2012 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | "The 611's Last Run" |
Here is a link to an essay on my train blog that also features You Tube video of N&W 611's last run on December 7th, 1994: http://tracksidet.blogspot.com/2012/05/ ... t-run.html I concluded my essay like this: "I hope that Norfolk Southern keeps the faith with their new "21st Century Steam" program. What is more, I hope some group gets formed to get the 611 back on the rails. In my heart, I believe that is where she belongs most of all." |
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| Author: | Matt3985 [ Sun May 20, 2012 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
I agree with you on that one. N&W #611 went into retirment when I was only 2 years old and I missed my chance to ever see or hear her in operation (in real life, not from some video) and I am hoping as well as one day some outside program will restore 611 when the time and money is right. |
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| Author: | Nova55 [ Sun May 20, 2012 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
Forgive me for this, and I dont mean to start a war.. What is the big significance of 611? Didn't she have her time in the spotlight? Why not restore another engine? Its like the long debated argument of the Warbonnet paint.. I just never understood the significance of this engine. |
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| Author: | Mark Z. Yerkes [ Sun May 20, 2012 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
Nova55 wrote: Forgive me for this, and I dont mean to start a war.. What is the big significance of 611? Didn't she have her time in the spotlight? Why not restore another engine? Its like the long debated argument of the Warbonnet paint.. I just never understood the significance of this engine. She, along with other engines, represents the pinnacle of locomotive engineering and is one of a very small number of existing steam locomotives that wasn't built by Baldwin, ALCO, or Lima. She was built by Norfolk and Western. Also, from a business perspective, she is good to have due to her power. 4-8-4s are generally preferred by groups that do long-rang trips, and there aren't that many left. From the NS viewpoint, she's got the history factor too. You wouldn't want to see, say, CO 614 pulling an NS train, because the Chesapeake and Ohio wasn't a part of NS. She's also pretty and has a beautiful whistle. Overall, there are various reasons why people would like to see her restored again. |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Mon May 21, 2012 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
Nova, I have to agree that 611 would be a great locomotive to see in service once more. She's in outstanding running condition, she's efficient, colorful, a home road engine (at least on N&W tracks), r/b equipped, and perhaps only artistically, shrouded. That last factor alone means she represents an era of steam ops that was used in advertising of fast passenger service. In short, she's unique. On PRR territory, I'd rather see the 1361 running, but that's the purist in me. As far as variety of wheel arrangements goes, if somebody comes forward with bushel baskets of hundred dollar bills, I would love to see something other than more 4-8-4's brought back to service. In time, I hope that will be rewarded, but for now - 611 is a great choice, while 1218 would make my heart sing. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Mon May 21, 2012 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
Nova55 wrote: Forgive me for this, and I dont mean to start a war.. What is the big significance of 611? I just never understood the significance of this engine. Nova55 - Sister J-class number 613 was the LAST steam locomotive built in North America for mainline passenger service. Unfortunately, the N&W did not save her. Number 611 was built just slightly before the 613, and fortuntely still exists as a worthwhile substitute. Les |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Mon May 21, 2012 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
Pfffft, Nova 55 is some young whippersnapper, still wet behind the ears, and doesn't know what he missed by being born too late. . . .:-) What has been said so far about the 611--about her streamlined design, her home road heritage, and that she represents a pinnacle of steam development--is all true. What hasn't been noted at this point is just how far N&W took steam development beyond just about everybody else in the United States, and perhaps the world. This was a railroad that had locomotives that stood off the diesels years after everyone else decided to change over. It wasn't just the J, but the A and the Y-5, Y-6, Y-6a, and Y-6b classes that, to use the words of the late David P. Morgan, "held the dike the longest" against the diesel tide. Morgan noted that with the possible exception of the A, N&W's engines weren't particularly good looking, at least in his opinion, and I think others would agree that the locomotives of other roads scored better on that rather worthless score, but in terms of performance, the N&W could beat about anyone, and that included dieselized roads of the time, in terms of things like gross ton miles per train hour, operating and transportation ratios, and so forth. Why, the N&W was something of an embarrassment to other roads with diesels that hadn't paid as much attention as they should have to overall operations. The N&W essentially dieselized its railroad with steam engines, using standardized locomotives, with those special buildings just for lubrication, with facilities that could load coal, water, and sand all at once without having to move the engine, and a host of other little things that let the road service a locomotive and get it back on the road in as little as one hour. That was approaching what most roads could do with diesels, and was far better than the three hours that was more typical of what were considered good steam operations. This was combined with a railroad that simply was well run. The result baffled people who thought a steam road had to be expensive and inefficient. Sadly, the N&W couldn't, by itself, keep the suppliers of steam specialties--stokers, injectors, feedwater heaters, and so on--in business. Those were things the N&W had to purchase, even if they built the locomotives themselves. All of this and more is what comes back to us in any steam locomotive that runs today, but it comes back in spades with the power of the N&W. If you can, I suggest you read "N&W, Giant of Steam," by William Jeffries for historical information on the whole of the modern N&W operation, "The Mohawk that Wouldn't Abdicate and Other Tales" by David P. Morgan, to get an idea of what it was like for railfans to be at trackside, and to be watching their beloved steam engines in their last hours, and to also look up "Steam's Finest Hour," also by Morgan, to take note of not only the fine power of the N&W, but of the work by the other designers and the commercial builders. I promise you, you will enjoy all of these volumes! While you wait to obtain those books (at least, that's what I hope you do!), enjoy some vintage video clips of N&W steam, and how those engines fit into the world of what O. Winston Link called "The Last Steam Railroad in America". . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV8rA3UE-lc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF-6FKD0pr0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y__yR95DSwc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APzxcyuE ... re=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xf9CTEG5hE Sheesh, and all this is coming from me, a C&O fan! Have fun, and let's keep our fingers crossed that we might one day see 611 and 1218 in steam someday. . .and maybe, even a little more, like a certain 4-6-2 in Ohio, and even a 2-8-8-2 from the midwest. . .ok, who woke me up from that dream? |
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| Author: | Nova55 [ Mon May 21, 2012 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
Gentlemen, Yes, I am a "young whippersnapper" per say, Ill admit, Im a diesel guy all the way.. I certainly learned about about said again in the above posts, So yes, I guess it does make sense to put her in service. Hopefully her day will come again. |
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| Author: | jasonsobczynski [ Tue May 22, 2012 7:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
A stated in the thread about the "A"...... From a practicality standpoint, the "A" makes more sense. Cheers, Jason |
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| Author: | Mark Z. Yerkes [ Tue May 22, 2012 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
"From a practical standpoint"? Isn't 1218 in worse shape than 611? |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Tue May 22, 2012 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
1218 is articulated and has more drivers, allowing her loaded weight to be better distributed. That's all the reference is. "Worse shape" is not the right term, in my opinion. Her parts are there, but she needs to have them put back in the right places but the right people. More work, costlier, but she was a running locomotive being shopped when the "old " NS silenced her. People better informed could comment here, 611 is, I'm told, ready to be fired. |
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| Author: | Mark Z. Yerkes [ Tue May 22, 2012 10:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
Richard Glueck wrote: 1218 is articulated and has more drivers, allowing her loaded weight to be better distributed. That's all the reference is. "Worse shape" is not the right term, in my opinion. Her parts are there, but she needs to have them put back in the right places but the right people. More work, costlier, but she was a running locomotive being shopped when the "old " NS silenced her. People better informed could comment here, 611 is, I'm told, ready to be fired. Understandable, when you put it that way. When I hear the word practical, I associate "cost" with that, and as I've heard it would be cheaper to put 611 back into service, I was confused by your statement. |
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| Author: | Matt3985 [ Tue May 22, 2012 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
Where are the parts of 1218 are being stored in the VTM? Plus what parts does the 1218 need that she does not have or lost after the closed of the old first Steam Program. |
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| Author: | Gary Gray [ Tue May 22, 2012 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
I have posted this information here before on similar discussions about 611 and 1218. Per qualified contractors, 611 would need about $500,000 to make her operable. (boiler overhaul to current FRA standards and some running gear work) 1218 would be about $1 mil, plus or minus to complete the overhaul she was in the middle of when the "old" Steam Program shut down. There are parts for both locomotives stored in Roanoke in 2 different cars. Add to the above cost figures an additional $1.5 million for the necessary support facilities to maintain the locomotives and provide a trainset to pull. We'll get started on this just as soon as we have a contract with NS to operate for at least 10 years and the check for the appropriate amount for either engine clears.......:) Gary Director & CMO, Roanoke Chapter NRHS |
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| Author: | Matt3985 [ Tue May 22, 2012 11:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The 611's Last Run" |
Gary Gray wrote: We'll get started on this just as soon as we have a contract with NS to operate for at least 10 years and the check for the appropriate amount for either engine clears.......:) Are you in the process of getting that 10 year contract?
Gary Director & CMO, Roanoke Chapter NRHS |
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