Although not particularly news, I thought some members of the forum might find of interest some recent photographs of John and Mable Ringling's private car "Jomar" located on a siding in downtown Sarasota..... The 1917 Pullman built private car is Interesting for a number of reasons, given the fact that I don't believe the car was ever truly owned by a railroad ( after John Ringling's death, it went to John Ringling North ) After becoming surplus, it later went to a private owner in Louisiana, at some point was stripped pretty badly and vandalized pretty hard, and then came back to Sarasota, in what seems like a somewhat "flawed" undercapitalized extended restoration effort..... At some point while owned by the circus the car lost its as built roof condition... ( I will show some photographs of the car in Venice Florida in the early 1970's ) that show the cars condition....I heard from a source, that the current roof, was constructed from a construction trash chute .. in addition, the selection of fiberglass was used as a roof material....Also of note, is the use of lightweight steps on the open platform end...

However, in the scheme of true cars built for private owners, there are not too many that ultimately survived.... Therefore making the Jomar unique not only for the long history, but the fact that it survives as a true private car that I don't believe ever went to a railroad company.....

With that said, I can't say for sure the future looks all too bright for the car... With questionable workmanship being done, the incorrect trucks, massive side sheet and side sill rot, bad windows and the like, to me, the future isn't all too bright.... however it is interesting, nonetheless....( and certainly not the only original private car languishing with a questionable future .. as I can think of a few )


Dean Levin

a few more photographs .

Photographs of the "Jomar" while still owned by the circus in Venice Florida in the early 1970's....


Dean Levin

I wonder if the "trash chute" was a false roof that accidentally protected the older roof, which now can be seen again.

Dean,
I would suggest that, given the age of the car, the original roof was a clerestory roof that was subsequently covered over by the "turtleback" roof shown in the 1970's photos. In my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience, the original structure tended to to be left intact in these roof modernizations, often done to make the old heavyweight cars blend into modern lightweight consists. In this case, perhaps it was just an expedient way to hide AC ducts or some other roof modification.

I've seen more than one modernized heavyweight car that still had the clerestory roof design on the interior. In particular, here in Albany, GA there is a HW RPO from the ACL that was built by AC&F in 1915 (ACL 700) with a clerestory roof, then in a rebuild in 1953 it was "streamlined" to be used in the ACL "Champion" consists (as ACL 13). The original roof structure remains hidden under the newer steel shell. This is made evident by the slightly taller stance the car has compared to cars with original rounded or totally replaced roofs. The 1970's photo showing the platform end shows a roof almost identical to that of the ACL RPO. I'd almost bet that the modifications were done by either ACL or SAL shop forces under contract for the circus.

ACL 13 after initial primer.
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=277093

ACL 13 as donated to the museum as SCL 770006
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=590699

So, the current roof is most likely the original, perhaps modified, but the roof shown in the 1970's photos was a mid-century modification or covering over of the original roof, with the original structure hidden under the rounded roof.

Stephen ( and the forum )

thanks for your note, I am very familiar with capped roof alterations on heavyweights, and have seen plenty of them... but the first thing you will notice when you look at the Jomar, is the vertical height of the center of the roof ... the height of the center of roof easily seems at least 12" higher than any conventional car. Once you then realize something is not right, you then notice the workmanship, the fasteners, the fiberglass, and something seems to have gone wrong....

if you look at the attached photographs of the Jomar showing the roof, you will see that the original roof is totally missing from this car, and that the new roof is an attempt to make it appear like the original roof on the Jomar....

therefore, it would appear, the original roof on this car was totally removed either by the circus, or someone after. ( although once again.. this isnt the first car to have had its roof removed, and not finished )

thanks for those interesting photographs


Dean Levin

builders view of the Jomar.... and a modified view showing ducting on the outside of the roof


Dean

I agree with Dean. If you talk to the owner he will openly brag about the trash chute installation. The older turtle-back roof was actually the roof off of a lightweight car that was plopped on top of the car...along with the trucks and steps (resourceful?). They say John Ringling-North made those modifications.

The current owner says that CSX has given him the green light to innovations for running this car in a dinner train on their mainline. Restoration will be complete in 2015. That's what he says...

Notice other special features...the bolsters are heaved through the floor, the truck frames touch...well everything. The walls are bowed out and are currently held together with a come-along. The floor is largely missing in most of the car. And the owner is all very proud of what he has accomplished. He claims his craftsmanship is finer then anything Pullman ever did.

About 9 square feet of this car is original...the buffet and a small area in one of the bedrooms. Everything else has either been modified or rusted into oblivion.

T7

termite and the forum

if you look at these photographs of the roof of the Jomar, you can see that from the end view, they appeared to have applied fiberglass over the steel, giving the roof a somewhat smooth texture. I don't think I have ever seen fiberglass material applied over a steel roof ( trash chute ) on a railroad car... Also in the photograph below, showing the side view, note the height of the center portion of the roof. It is much higher than a conventional heavyweight roof. In addition look at how the curved roof sheets lap over ( and you can see the open gaps )...

its all a mess...and likely once the original roof was gone, it became highly unlikely that unless significant engineering was done, that a few volunteers could apply a historically accurate roof to this car...

in the end, its a real shame, as certainly this car would have had significantly historical value to the city of Sarasota and the circus museum. However it was likely so aftered in the 1970's that 90 percent of the historical originality of the car was gone....

its an interesting study of how not to do a private restoration.



Dean Levin

With the new photos I see what you meant, Dean. That's what had me puzzled about the initial post, since I know you've "been around"! What a mess that car is.

Just in case anyone wanted to see the 1917 car diagram for the Jomar... I had to make it a bit larger to get to the point where you could read it...

Anyway... thought some might find it of interest, and related to the subject matter.


Dean Levin