Folks,
In the process of rebuilding C&NW R-1 class 1385, Mid-Continent Railway Museum finds we are in need of steps for the 7500 gallon tender we are rebuilding to go with her. Sometime between the late '60s when she was separated from that tender and the early '00s when the tender was moved off the grounds, the steps had been removed and put "somewhere". We are looking for either patterns or actual steps that can aid in patternmaking.
As a bit of background, she last ran with a 5700 gal. tender and the steps are not the same. A side note to John Risley, we have scoured the Museum grounds and did find the cistern valves that had been cut out but have not turned up the steps (thanks for your tips that helped on the cistern valves).
We do have copies of the C&NW engineering drawings but an actual 3-D object would make casting new steps greatly easier.
Thanks in advance for thoughts and assistance.....mld

Pete I am about 99% sure that the steps from the original tender were put on the replacement tender. One of the steps on the replacment tender was cracked so I am pretty sure they were both replaced from the original tender. If they too were removed like the cistern assemblies were, then I cannot help as to where they ended up.

Who cut the cistern valves out? Might of been the person who cut the bolts holding the steps on? When searching the property for UP #440 parts I do not recall finding a set of steps. Did a pretty extensive search, although I wasn't looking for steps either. Is an ongoing problem that guys start cutting parts off and then don't mark them. Did you look in the box car with the locomotive parts? Another hint, two of the bolt holes will have been elongated with a cutting torch on the original set of steps, part of the "retrofit process" in 1972. It was that or weld up the casting that was cracked and powers that be at the time didn't want to do that. Good luck Pete. Cheers, John.

PS find it funny that welding a patch in a boiler was not questioned, but welding up a step was?

Ever consider just fabricating them? 630's rear tender steps were done this way, replicating those off the 4501's. It was difficult to tell apart the cast one vs. the welded one. It would likely save a decent amount of money, patterns aren't too cheap...

John,
The C&NW drawings we got through Lake States indicate that the steps on the 5700 gal. tender are correct for that tender. Who knows what may have happened between the '72 refit & when she came out of service in '98, but at this point the smaller tender doesn't have the steps from the larger tender.
No idea on who cut out the cistern valves. I just found them lying behind the brake shed.

SR6900,
The proper steps would be difficult to fabricate as it is a very nicely curved casting and not a simple box. I don't know how the 630's are shaped so I don't know what you were up against. Yes, the pattern cost is a real heartstopper.


To All,
This brings up a point: Anyone have a patternmaker they have had good results from with a piece this size?

Thanks.....mld

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=3042458
You can see the steps in the lower right corner. Probably not the easiest way to do it, but it shouldn't have to be done for it again.

One thing we had considered for another different part was a throwaway pattern. It would involve translating the 2D drawing into a 3D CAD program. The 3D file could be printed out fully on an appropriate size 3D printer (can be a difficult thing to find) in a material that would essentially disintegrate when the metals are poured in the mold (modern 2D drawings can be easily extracted from the files too, to better comply with modern standards and ease of reading). It's pretty amazing technology that could quite useful and efficient if implemented in restorations. Heck, some of the newest 3D printers can print metal or virtually any other material you'd want.

The curved steps would be easy to fabricate, any decent fabrication shop with a sufficient roll or better yet a CNC press brake would have no issue with a project like this. I have had great luck with much more complicated components utilizing CNC brakes.

There is a guy half way to the dells that does wood patterns out of laminated poplar. His primary focus is fabricating prototype vacuum molds for things such as lawn tractor hoods. The work is done on a 5 axis planer mil. Bob Ristow remembers where the guy is, he's not in the phone book. We found him via referrals.

While I am here in WI I would be happy to facilitate/orchestrate the fabrication of these. Often times shops wind up being capable beyond what they believe themselves to be IF the individual handling the project can layout the procedure by which to perform an operation.

Cheers, Jason

Pete I agree with Jason here. While I personally would botch the attempt, others with more skill wouldn't really have that hard of time fabing a set. Heck look at what Gary did with a plate of steel, as if by magic it turned into a thoat sheet complete with compound radius bends that were just awesome, much more difficult than a set of steps. Serously a lot of money could probalbly be saved by just fabing them. Lets not follow the Fish Cars cook stove approach of making money disappear.

Glad you found the cistern valves, lucky they were not stolen for the bronze.

Cheers, John.

SR6900,
That is a more complex step than I had expected. Very well executed! How were the curves formed?

Jason,
Thanks for the info & offer. I'm doing footwork and gathering so I'll buck this up the chain & see what happens.

For the PM's, Thanks & as with Jason, we'll see what the higher-ups have to say.

Sorry for the delay in replies, that vacation thing.....mld

Heat and bend around pegs welded to a welding table if I remember right. Cut and welded and ground the edges smooth. The gripping surface was merely little weld beads arranged in a staggered pattern.

Well, since this thread has fallen onto page 2 of the forum, maybe it's safe to wander off-topic now.

Attached is a pic I have of #1385 pushing a Milwaukee tender. I assume that's Milwaukee canteen #8670 at Mid-Continent? I ask only because #8670 looks a bit different in the Mid-Continent on-line roster.

FLO,
Thanks for posting the picture. It is always fun to see new images of the old girl in action. I do think that canteen in your shot is the same one pictured on the roster. As well as I can see, it seems to have the same hump over the hatches in the center of the car and looks to have the same steps and headlight bracket on the end. The primary difference is the Milwaukee Road versus MCRY paint job. My opinion and worth what you've paid for it.

Concerning the steps, fresh eyes are always a good thing. Another set of steps have been spotted and are being identified. It is always interesting to try to scrape together a project that has gone through multiple administrations......mld

What was lost has been found! Proving that asking around and utilizing more eyes is a useful tactic, the original steps have been located. They were stuffed away in a boxcar by ???? and when ?????. Details don't really matter but we have made another "step" in the restoration effort....mld

But were the person(s) looking for the steps when they found them? I'd wager not. :-)

Proving once again that something is always found in the last place you look. Now, if you would have just looked there first...

...We wouldn't have had this interesting conversation!

Jeff