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Hurry Up and Scrap
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33516		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  robertmacdowell [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Hurry Up and Scrap
I've noticed several instances now, where something sits around for years and years, and then suddenly BLAM - faster than you can blink your eyes, the thing is being disposed of. Very commonly the thing is not well advertised, and certainly there's no time for museums to get word, the relevant committees and boards to meet, and them to allocate money or fundraise.

I've seen a recent instance of where I asked several times to buy the thing, and everytime the answer is "no, we're not really interested." And then suddenly, complete whiplash.

So why do people sit for years or even decades on assets they can't care for and aren't going to use... and then suddenly get fire in pants to get rid of it on a short fuse?

How do we as museums deal with that?
Author:  Jack A. Siffert [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
On the bright side, scrap dropped $60 a ton this month. Down below $200 a ton. That may help to slow this trend . Or if nothing else make an offer look better.
Author:  Bob Davis [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
"I've heard this song before" (and even contributed to hasty fund raising drives brought on by these situations). Here are a few possible reasons (please feel free to add others):

1) Change of ownership or management. Old guy who was running the place retires or dies, and new owner or boss decides to clean house. Often seen in family-run companies.

2) Land becomes too valuable for storage of "junk". A situation peculiar to Southern California is movie back lots being cleaned out for commercial development. The "old school" prop departments were a lot like railroads in their "Don't throw that away! We might need it." mindset.

3) Legal department cites "attractive nuisance" and "liability" laws.

4) Formerly rural areas become suburban, and new neighbors complain to the city that "old rusty railroad cars lower our property values."
Author:  wesp [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
Quote:
So why do people sit for years or even decades on assets they can't care for and aren't going to use... and then suddenly get fire in pants to get rid of it on a short fuse?


As we all get older, private owners need to plan ahead. I know of one collection that had to be dealt with asap in the last year when the owner died suddenly and unexpectedly. The owner had begun to disburse some items, a few at a time - but that was a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the collection. I think most museum members know who has this kind of stuff in our respective organizations and the trick is to gain the confidence of the owners so that advance planning can be done. The situation cited here was sad for many reasons, but probably more typical than we care to admit.

Quote:
How do we as museums deal with that?


If this question pertains to big stuff like equipment, a board should develop adequate cash reserves so it is possible to forward fund an "emergency" acquisition while the real fundraising is underway. Having the discipline to set aside funds and leave them alone is the trick. Based on recent experience with the Trolleyville collection and our sweeper swap, I'd submit $20,000 as a starting point for an "advance collections fund" or general reserve that can be used.

Wesley
Author:  Rick Rowlands [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
OK I will buck the trend. This locomotive is available for sale for under scrap value, and is in no danger of immediately being cut up, but WILL BE unless someone acts.

Image
Long underframe GE 80 tonner with Cummins LI-600 engines. One engine runs but needs a new conn rod bearing. Other engine is stuck and missing a cylinder head. Located in McDonald, OH at Truck Electric, but not owned by them. All glass is intact, NO RUST on carbody, wheels decent, and I have access to another 80 tonner that we could strip parts off of to make the other LI-600 run. All this for $312/ short ton.

BTW she was the Genesee & Wyoming's first diesel.
Author:  RDG 179 [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
Reading 2000 series ''blimp'' coaches, as used on the King Coal, Schuylkill, and Wall Street trains.

RCT&HS has acquired the car-body of Grill Car #2060, in ''relatively'' good shape since it was heated as a Diner for many years.
But it is missing trucks and couplers/draft gear.

There were three 2000 series cars in Scranton, that had been gutted of most their interiors, but externally they were complete.
All the parts we needed to put in a blender with the 2060.
We tried for many years to make a deal for 1 or all three. Suddenly...gone!

Coach #2002-(?) on the Housatonic RR... was 1 of 6 cars last used on the Reading's ''Push-Pull'' train with an FP-7 on each end.
For a time, the cars were leased to ConnDot. 5 of the 6 currently have a good home at Danbury.
The 6th (2002) had been donated to a town along the HRR for display, but they had changed their mind.
We were trying to get this car, or at least trucks and parts. Suddenly...gone!

Of the tons of RDG coaches that still exist, only these have the correct trucks for the 2060.

We have had communications with the good folks at Danbury.
(any of the Danbury gang reading this, ''Hi'' from the Reading gang!)
Eventually, they ''might'' want to part with one of their 2000 series cars. If and when they do, we will be greatly appreciative!
Author:  RCD [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
What about that F40PH?
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
RCD wrote:
What about that F40PH?


$30K to $40K scrap value, with consideration for labor and expendables to cut up. Mind you, there's more to salvage out of an F40PH (engine parts, motors, etc.) so add on to that price unless they do you a favor.

Factor in shipping, and maybe $50K total. "What's in YOUR wallet?"
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
robertmacdowell wrote:
So why do people sit for years or even decades on assets they can't care for and aren't going to use... and then suddenly get fire in pants to get rid of it on a short fuse?

How do we as museums deal with that?


Realistically, you have three options:

1) You walk up with a suitcase full of $100 bills, or bars of gold, an attractive young woman, your secret BBQ or chili or homebrew recipe, whatever they'll trade.

2) You make yourselves an attractive and appealing option to scrapping. In the real world, this has less to do with reciting the tax codes about donations to them, and FAR more to do with running a "tight ship" financially, presenting yourselves as reliable and trustworthy stewards of artifacts, demonstrating a good relationship with the public, fulfilling a worthy educational and historic-preservation role, not looking like an "exclusive club" or a "rich man/men's plaything," etc.

3) Bribery, blackmail or extortion. (Okay, scratch that off the "realistic" list.)

Neither 1) nor 2) guarantee desirable results, by any means. But, frankly, those are your only two legal options.
Author:  Rick Rowlands [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
I think the F40s are gone now. Truck Electric was stripping them down before torching the carbodies. Every one of them was full to the brim with diesel fuel.
Author:  JimBoylan [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
Scrap dealers often offer immediate cash and quick removal, even of everything in sight. Even if a purchaser can match the price on on piece, there might be a delay arranging for lifting, hauling, and permits.
Author:  scottychaos [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
Hot Metal wrote:
OK I will buck the trend. This locomotive is available for sale for under scrap value, and is in no danger of immediately being cut up, but WILL BE unless someone acts.

Image
Long underframe GE 80 tonner with Cummins LI-600 engines. One engine runs but needs a new conn rod bearing. Other engine is stuck and missing a cylinder head. Located in McDonald, OH at Truck Electric, but not owned by them. All glass is intact, NO RUST on carbody, wheels decent, and I have access to another 80 tonner that we could strip parts off of to make the other LI-600 run. All this for $312/ short ton.

BTW she was the Genesee & Wyoming's first diesel.


ooh! I hope she can find a new home..
I have her condition on my G&W webpage:
http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/GW/GWpage.html
listed as "currently derelict"..clearly that is not the case!
I will update the page, remove the word "derelict" and indicate she is for sale.
thanks,
Scot
Author:  jasonsobczynski [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
RDG 179 wrote:

There were three 2000 series cars in Scranton, that had been gutted of most their interiors, but externally they were complete.
All the parts we needed to put in a blender with the 2060.
We tried for many years to make a deal for 1 or all three. Suddenly...gone!


I wish you had posted something about these sometime between september and december of last year. I was indirectly involved with the disposition of those cars, assuming we are talking about the three grill cars a few miles west of scranton closer to if not in pittston in the yard of an independent diesel shop.

After the flood, as it was explained to me, the shop shut down and everything was cleared out. I guess those cars had been stored for whatever party had owned them, when it came time to move them out the opted for scrapping.

Cheers, Jason
Author:  robertmacdowell [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
jasonsobczynski wrote:
RDG 179 wrote:
We tried for many years to make a deal for 1 or all three. Suddenly...gone!


I wish you had posted something about these sometime between september and december of last year.

SEE FOLKS? This right here.

99% of the time when you ask about a piece, they aren't doing anything with it, but they haven't really thought about de-accession-ing it. So they just knee-jerk a quick "no". And that's that. It's rather discouraging to re-ask periodically, so we tend not to. This makes it rather unlikely that we'll re-ask at the perfect time. And even if we do, the letter goes to the office manager, who round-files it and never gives it to the decision maker. We need a better system.
Author:  R.L.Kennedy [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hurry Up and Scrap
Regarding the 80-tonner. How supportable is this unit? Are parts readily available for LI-600 prime movers? Other components such as MG etc? What is the air brake schedule? When was this unit last operated?

You say available for less than scrap. Scrap is under $200 per ton (as per earlier post) and you are asking $312 per ton. Please explain.
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