This car was photographed in Knoxville, Tenn. on June 3, 1974 by late Baltimore Chapter NRHS member Jim Hudson. Can anyone identify which car the red one is, and if it's around today and where?
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
This car was photographed in Knoxville, Tenn. on June 3, 1974 by late Baltimore Chapter NRHS member Jim Hudson. Can anyone identify which car the red one is, and if it's around today and where?
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
Mr. ETA Alcos might be able to help, but the L&N car in front of it is one of the ACF-built L&N cars. The L&N kept one of these cars, a lounge car, for "shippers special" service from the old L&N depot to the UT football stadium for games. That might be the L&N car. Location looks to be around the old L&N depot, but its hard for me to tell, as most of that area was heavily re-developed for the World's Fair. |
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| Author: | Hayneshopcat [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
While I don't recognize that particular car, the location is Southern's City Yard in downtown Knoxville. The photo was taken from the Gay Street Viaduct that crossed over the yard. David Witherspoon who was a local scrap dealer purchased several L&N passenger cars and stored them in City Yard. This could be one of his cars. The photo was taken looking to the west. That's the westbound main in the foreground and what appears to be one of Southern's dynamic brake equipped GP-7's in the background. There are a couple of folks on this board that might be able to chime in with the pedigree on the car. |
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| Author: | scottychaos [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
based on the pointed gothic windows, I wonder if it might have been a chapel car? Scot |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
I had forgotten about the Scrap Yard in Knoxville. Hmm, the mystery deepens. I'm curious of those are L&N heavyweight cars behind the car in question. |
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| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
I'd say the window arrangement is wrong for a chapel car... the four "gothic" windows seem to indicate an aisle, possibly around staterooms, as would be typical of a business / private car, with a parlor just inside the observation platform, then several staterooms (arranged on the left side of the car for the view, while keeping the aisle adjacent to the second track in double track territory.) Ahead of that would be the formal dining / conference room, with the galley and crews accommodations ahead of that. The gothic windows along the aisle are reminiscent of Barney & Smith built steel sleepers; I seem to recall that D&M 100, which used to be in Carillon Park in Dayton, but I can't find a photo now, had four in a row, but the 100 was a wood car with elliptical upper sash over the paired windows. This car is styled like a B&S steel car from just before WWI. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:00 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? | |||
Here is D&M 100 at Carillon Park, last month. Very nicely preserved indoors. Trivia: she is exhibited with combination gas/electric lamps. Are they original?
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
Well, I found the view off the other side of the overpass, which includes those aforementioned Witherspoon cars..... 
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
Those are L&N Pine series sleepers, 6 roomettes, 4 double bedrooms and 6 open sections. |
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| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
softwerkslex wrote: Here is D&M 100 at Carillon Park, last month. Very nicely preserved indoors. Trivia: she is exhibited with combination gas/electric lamps. Are they original? Thanks Steve. It's been at least thirty years since I was in Carillon Park, and at that time she was outside, under a pavilion IIRC. Glad to see she is totally inside, although I suppose that explains the lack of photos on the Dayton web site. Can't tell in the light fixtures are original to the car, but dual lighting systems were common in that period. |
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| Author: | Termite7 [ Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
That old red car is the Former Clinchfield 100. It was built about 1905 for Blair and Company as the "Clinchfield". Blair was a financial wizard largely responsible for seeing the CC&O completed and solvent. Somehow it ended up on the CC&O roster. The car was sold off to a private party in Knoxville (around 1968-70) where it suffered any number of indignities. For a while it sat on a weed covered siding in Bearden and then it sat at the depot where a procession of owners attempted mis-guided restoration attempts and enjoyed herbal remedies in the parlor. If you knew which sheet of rotten plywood to slide to the side...a careful student of history could slide in and look at the destroyed wood paneling and missing floorboards. The car still had an original Baker Car Heater. It also retained the faux wood siding which one can see in the photos (it was actually steel). Where did she go? A mystery. One day (in the late 1980's) the car was reportedly lifted off the wood-beam trucks and placed on newer trucks and the car was coupled to the end of a freight train...never to be seen again. The old trucks and the car's Duners sat in a patch of weeds in the yard for a while. I have never spoken to anyone who knows of the cars disposition. Any ideas? T7 |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
(Sighs) Sounds like another one that got away, and after being in reach for so long, too. . . |
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| Author: | Bob Hall [ Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
The lamps are in the style of Pintsch 4 arm, but of a different design to those seen in the advertising of the time. May be repros, but the globes hanging off the sides are a giveaway to them being electric now. Cheers, Bob |
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| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
Almost that same lamp is shown in the 1906 Car Builder's Dictionary as Fig. 3011, titled "No. 438a Combination Lamp", differing only by having only two sockets for incandescent lamps, but there doesn't appear to be any reason it couldn't have been built with four. On Edit: I belatedly remember that Google Books has the 1903 Car Builder's Dictionary available on line, and that book contains most the same material as the 1906. Let's see ifthis link will take us to the proper page: http://books.google.com/books?id=IGVYAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PP9&ots=CQlNF6BfY9&dq=1903%20CAR%20BUILDERS%20DICTIONARY&pg=PA317#v=onepage&q=1903%20CAR%20BUILDERS%20DICTIONARY&f=false |
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| Author: | etalcos [ Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Can Anyone ID This Passenger Car? |
Termite, I read somewhere that it was CC&O 99 and it showed as an Old Smoky car? I had it in mind that CC&O 100 was a steel car? ETA |
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