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Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
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Author:  PLATFORMCAR [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
Looking for perhaps some assistance from the knowledgeable members of the forum to help identify a particular business car that is located in Boulder City Nevada. Over the past few years I have seen this car a few times, but was never able to find out much information on the full history of the car. The car is lettered "Hartwell" across the letter board ( mostly faded ) and has the number 6802 and the name "Nobleman" on the car as well as the "Red Carpet Line" logo on each side...

Some poking around the Internet found that the Hartwell Railroad was a railroad down in northern Georgia, and somehow I suspect was the operator of the Northwestern Oklahoma Railroad ( as I saw photographs of a 44 tonner lettered that way, with the "Red Carpet Line" logo on it...

Now... the car has an inspection date back in the 1980's at NOKL ( Northwestern Oklahoma Railroad... and WW ... which I believe likely stands for Woodward Oklahoma...

This railroad I believe is the Northwest end of the old Katy ( MKT ) in Woodward... which consisted of a yard and about 3 miles of trackage on the old MKT / Beaver Meade and Englewood RR

So... if this all makes sense... perhaps this car was the sole business car of the Hartwell Railroad ( operator of the Northwestern Oklahoma Railroad ) at least in the 1980's....

My question is, does the car look familiar to anyone, and what was it built as and who was it built for...? It obviously appears to be a steel sheathed car, with an obvious wood roof.

The car is stored with some other derelict cars at the Nevada State Railroad Museum in Boulder City NV... Car is in theory "landlocked" as the connection I believe to the outside world ( Union Pacific ) has been severed. Anyone know anything about it, how and when it arrived there or any information ?

The photographs provided are recent.

So, can anyone provide any further history of this car ? It would certainly be appreciated

Thanks


Dean Levin

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NOBLE1.jpg
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HOPE1.jpg
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Author:  PLATFORMCAR [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 603 "Nobleman"
a few more photographs


Dean Levin

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NOBLE3.jpg
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Author:  Alan Maples [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
PLATFORMCAR wrote:
Some poking around the Internet found that the Hartwell Railroad was a railroad down in northern Georgia, and somehow I suspect was the operator of the Northwestern Oklahoma Railroad ( as I saw photographs of a 44 tonner lettered that way, with the "Red Carpet Line" logo on it...

Now... the car has an inspection date back in the 1980's at NOKL ( Northwestern Oklahoma Railroad... and WW ... which I believe likely stands for Woodward Oklahoma...

This railroad I believe is the Northwest end of the old Katy ( MKT ) in Woodward... which consisted of a yard and about 3 miles of trackage on the old MKT / Beaver Meade and Englewood RR



The Northwestern Oklahoma Railroad was owned by Frank Pollock, Jr., a railfan and sewing machine saleman. He started the NOKL at Woodward, OK, in 1973 when M-K-T abandoned its Northwestern District. His roster included a pair of ex-Sacramento Northern 44-tonners, a B&O wood caboose, and at least two ex-Katy coaches. The "Nobleman" presumably was added to the collection before Pollock sold the NOKL and moved his other equipment to Georgia where he operated excursions on the Hartwell Railroad. Some of his cars later went to the New Georgia Railroad and the M-K-T heavyweight ended up at the Kentucky Railway Museum. I have no specific knowledge of the "Nobleman" but hopefully others here can fill in details.

Alan Maples
Author:  Brian Norden [ Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
PLATFORMCAR wrote:
The car is stored with some other derelict cars at the Nevada State Railroad Museum in Boulder City NV... Car is in theory "landlocked" as the connection I believe to the outside world ( Union Pacific ) has been severed. Anyone know anything about it, how and when it arrived there or any information ?
Most of the collection at the Boulder City site were once up in Utah. I think it was at Heber City. This was prior to the current operation at Heber City.
Author:  Jim Herron [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
Alan is correct. Frank Pollock lived in the car at Hartwell, GA until his untimely death. Hi automobile was hit broadside by a police car on a chase at an intersection in Hartwell.
-JH
Author:  Alan Maples [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
I only went by the Hartwell once, in 1985. I remember seeing a former Penn Central office car there - the word "formerly" had been neatly placed above "Penn Central" on the letterboard. I have no other information as to its identity or disposition, however I am pretty certain this was not the "Nobleman"

Alan Maples
Author:  wilkinsd [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
Alan Maples wrote:
The Northwestern Oklahoma Railroad was owned by Frank Pollock, Jr., a railfan and sewing machine saleman. He started the NOKL at Woodward, OK, in 1973 when M-K-T abandoned its Northwestern District. His roster included a pair of ex-Sacramento Northern 44-tonners, a B&O wood caboose, and at least two ex-Katy coaches. The "Nobleman" presumably was added to the collection before Pollock sold the NOKL and moved his other equipment to Georgia where he operated excursions on the Hartwell Railroad. Some of his cars later went to the New Georgia Railroad and the M-K-T heavyweight ended up at the Kentucky Railway Museum. I have no specific knowledge of the "Nobleman" but hopefully others here can fill in details.

Alan Maples


Mr. Maples is correct, MKT coach 884 is at KRM in New Haven. It was purchased from the New Georgia auction in the 1990s. The other MKT coach, if I remember from the auction materials, was in the middle of a conversion to air conditioning, and maybe was even auctioned without trucks. I always wonder what happened for it. The 884 was in very good shape when it arrived at KRM, and is, at least from memory, in decdent shape.
Author:  Catalpa [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
The Penn Central car was an ex NYC office car, which Alan mentioned, belonged to Ted and Sarah Church, who for a while, I believe, had an interest in the Hartwell. Eventually, the Church's car was sent to Bellevue (OH) to the Mad River and NKP Museum. After their passing, the car, PC #7, went to the museum's permanent collection, along with four ex-troop sleepers containing the Church's collection of railroad artifacts, photos, etc.

George Payne
Baltimore, MD
Author:  PLATFORMCAR [ Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
Appreciate all those who took the time to respond... Unfortunately although all the information is interesting, didn't find an answer to the history of this car.

If anyone comes up with any information, would sure appreciate it



Dean Levin

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HARTWELL1.jpg
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Author:  etalcos [ Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
Try GTW 84 or GTW 63??? Formerly owned by an H. H. Noble prior to Northwestern Oklahoma.

ETA
Author:  Alan Maples [ Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
etalcos wrote:
Try GTW 84 or GTW 63??? Formerly owned by an H. H. Noble prior to Northwestern Oklahoma.

ETA


That would match . . . Howard Noble was president of the original Cadillac & Lake City Railway and the C&LC had a former GTW office car which carried the name Emerald Lakes.

http://www.railroadmichigan.com/cadillaclakecity.html

Alan Maples
Author:  PLATFORMCAR [ Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
thanks Alan, etalcos, David, George and everyone else who took the time to respond... The photographs in that link show the car in two or three photographs... Sad to see the car fall on such hard times now... really needs a tarp over it quickly as the roof is mostly bare at this point...

Certainly do appreciate the assistance in finding this information out... I was out of leads and couldn't find any information...

Thanks again


Dean Levin
Author:  GTW Dude [ Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
It has been a little under 13 years since any news has come out about this car. Is it still at Boulder City or has it been scrapped? The GTW only had a handful of observation cars and it's incredible that more than one has survived. I thought for sure until recently that only one from before 1960 had escaped the torch.
Author:  PMC [ Sat Jan 25, 2025 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
It looks like it was on the Northwestern Oklahoma Railroad, as the original poster noted, as #11, original number GTW #84. I haven't found anything recent on it. Both photos Jerry Laboda. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPict ... id=1125190 It is amazing that a car could go from the elaborate restoration pictured below to what is shown in the OP, but I guess a lot can happen 27 years.

Attachments:
NOKL HW business car 2 Woodward, Ok., 4-19-75.jpg
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NOKL HW business car 1 Woodward, Ok., 4-19-75.jpg
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Author:  GTW Dude [ Sat Jan 25, 2025 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hartwell Railroad Business Car # 6802 "Nobleman"
Thank you for those photos PMC. I noticed what looks like the remnants of a headlight on the back of the observation deck railings. I'm not sure how many GTW Business cars had this hallmark, but I do know the office car used on the last official day of steam operations on the GTW had a headlight on the back. I haven't been able to find the number of that car but if I had to take a wild guess, it's likely the 84. If this is the case, then I believe 84 was the GTW Vice President's car. I don't have my copy of "Evening Before the Diesel" by Charles Foss with me at the moment so I cannot check if that is true.
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