Railway Preservation News :: View topic - TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future?

The current very low interest rates on retirement savings are going to have a profound effect on the "baby boomers" in retirement, because they will have relatively little interest income coming in. Many of them will be working more years in order to delay dipping into their retirement savings, so it is likely that fewer will be volunteering. The trend is quite ominous for all organizations that are highly dependent on volunteer help.

I'd like to respond to your comment about the lack of educational programs in tourism by pointing out that there are very relevant educational programs in Museum Studies and Nonprofit Management. All the talk about running a museum like a business is kinda true to a point. Nonprofits are different from other businesses: their fundamental purpose, potential sources of revenue, and their reliance upon volunteers are unlike anything in the for-profit world. A background in business administration does not prepare someone to run a successful nonprofit.

Successful museums in other fields rely upon professionals trained in these programs, yet there are few of these people working in our museums. We are getting left behind by nonprofits that are working hard to appeal to the general public through more sophisticated programs and at out-competing us for grants. The professionalization of our field's leadership may be necessary for our movement to join the 21st Century.

Quote:

So does this mean that we sit idly by and wait for the baby boomers to die off and close the doors?

The younger people you need for your organization ARE out there (I'm one of them) but you're going to have to stop hoarding everything like personal toys and let younger people actually (gasp) -touch things-.

Once your group finally starts trading kids some stick time in the cab instead of telling them to screw off and go find your groups beat to hell lawn mower and push it around every time they show up, you'll start getting younger members.

It means that all organizations that are heavily dependent on volunteers will have to make even greater efforts at promoting their organization and seeking new members, and it is going to need to be done against competition from other groups that have the same needs for volunteer help. Then hope that at least a few of the people who chose to keep working rather than retiring have some disposable income they can offer as financial supporters.

PC

I will follow that up with asking as a young person what would you think would be a good way to have training that would encourage young people to get and stay involved? Not only that at what age group should interest be encouraged? I seriously ask these questions as I am working on developing a mentoring program to get new young interest. I strongly believe that the young people are out future and they bring a completely new set of skills and knowledge to the table that we have never seen before.

One of the volunteer epiphanies we had at NCTM was to let the volunteer or new member find their way. Prior to this we'd immediately assume that a mechanic wanted to work in the shop and an accountant would be good manager/administrator and guide him/her in that direction. At some point in dawned on the leadership that folks often came to us to do something different than what they did all week. Once that reality was allowed to play out we found we had improved retention of new recruits.

Wesley

Author:	PennCentral4321 [ Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:	TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future?
As I look around at many of the museums, groups and tourist lines I have been to I notice the same thing. Most of those there are 50 years old plus, myself included. I also look back at the organization that I started with when I was just 14. It was a young group and had lofty goals, many of those young leaders continued to stay in railway preservation some are still very active and some have passed on. Today that same organization has new young members that are The Next Generation (TNG) and are moving that organization into the 21st Century. That was not always the case though and there was a time when new young ideas were not always met with open minds. during that time some of the most favorite words were, "That is not how we do it around here." As I got the opportunity to work with other groups I began to find out that those words were being said in many places. Then in the next breath they would say, "We just can't get young people interested in what we do here." The last time I had Trains Guide to Tourist railroads and museums it was about an inch thick. I have no idea how many that would be but I am confident that one person could not visit all of them in one year. Now how many of those locations have their collection completely restored, with more people showing up than jobs to do. I was told many years ago that for a group to be successful they needed to manage as a business. I have also learned to look at railway preservation, tourist railroading and museums as an industry. With all these things woven together it makes me wonder what are we doing as an industry to insure that we secure the future of the industry and involve TNG? I currently live in an area that the local economy is driven by historic tourism and has world wide recognition for that. I was stunned to find out that there were no schools in the area that offered any formal schooling in the tourism industry. That then got me back to thinking about the fact that there is no formal schooling for this industry. I know that there will be many who will say that is not needed, but I do wonder what if there was some kind of formal education for railway preservation? How would that effect the future of historic railroading in general? What skills are simply dieing because they are not being passed on? How could the use of 21st Century technology used across the board make make our businesses more profitable? I do realize that not everyone who walks through the door will want to get involved, but I do feel that overall we can be more welcoming to TNG who will continue the work that has been started. Mark A. Frazier

Author:	Randolph R. Ruiz [ Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
I'd like to respond to your comment about the lack of educational programs in tourism by pointing out that there are very relevant educational programs in Museum Studies and Nonprofit Management. All the talk about running a museum like a business is kinda true to a point. Nonprofits are different from other businesses: their fundamental purpose, potential sources of revenue, and their reliance upon volunteers are unlike anything in the for-profit world. A background in business administration does not prepare someone to run a successful nonprofit. One of the most significant differences is the nonprofit's ostensible public-benefit. We have an obligation to use our collections to create compelling and educational experiences for our visitors. This is an area I feel most of our institutions are weak. Successfully connecting to our visitors will help us grow and guarantee a future for our our museums and their collections. I'm not sure where you are located (didn't we used to have access to one another's profiles here?), but Assuming you are near Indiana (previous posts mention your association with the museum in Elkhart), here are a few of the programs that someone interested in helping to take a railroad museum to the next level might be interested in. Museum Studies programs focus on Collection Management, Curating, and Education. Ball State and Indiana University-Purdue have programs that have a decent emphasis on historic preservation, as opposed to the focus on Fine Arts that is common in this field. http://www.midwestmuseums.org/links_museumstudies.html Nonprofit Management programs include coursework in Strategic Planning, Fundraising, Volunteer Management, Program Evaluation, and Nonprofit Law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_ ... anizations Indiana has two of the top ranked programs in the Nation: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... t-rankings. Successful museums in other fields rely upon professionals trained in these programs, yet there are few of these people working in our museums. We are getting left behind by nonprofits that are working hard to appeal to the general public through more sophisticated programs and at out-competing us for grants. The professionalization of our field's leadership may be necessary for our movement to join the 21st Century.

Author:	PCook [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
As far as the future is concerned, money and volunteers are always needed, and both are likely to be in short supply. The current very low interest rates on retirement savings are going to have a profound effect on the "baby boomers" in retirement, because they will have relatively little interest income coming in. Many of them will be working more years in order to delay dipping into their retirement savings, so it is likely that fewer will be volunteering. The trend is quite ominous for all organizations that are highly dependent on volunteer help. PC

Author:	PennCentral4321 [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
Quote: The current very low interest rates on retirement savings are going to have a profound effect on the "baby boomers" in retirement, because they will have relatively little interest income coming in. Many of them will be working more years in order to delay dipping into their retirement savings, so it is likely that fewer will be volunteering. The trend is quite ominous for all organizations that are highly dependent on volunteer help. So does this mean that we sit idly by and wait for the baby boomers to die off and close the doors? Quote: I'd like to respond to your comment about the lack of educational programs in tourism by pointing out that there are very relevant educational programs in Museum Studies and Nonprofit Management. All the talk about running a museum like a business is kinda true to a point. Nonprofits are different from other businesses: their fundamental purpose, potential sources of revenue, and their reliance upon volunteers are unlike anything in the for-profit world. A background in business administration does not prepare someone to run a successful nonprofit. I guess I was thinking more on the tourism direction in general, but more in the line of how that historic railroading in working on drawing in the tourist dollar. I am now in northeast Florida and have learned just how much money is spent by vacationers. Just because a museum is not-for -profit does not mean that it must be volunteer in fact there are many not-for profits that have rather large paid staffs. Quote: Successful museums in other fields rely upon professionals trained in these programs, yet there are few of these people working in our museums. We are getting left behind by nonprofits that are working hard to appeal to the general public through more sophisticated programs and at out-competing us for grants. The professionalization of our field's leadership may be necessary for our movement to join the 21st Century. Many other museums are looking to who it is out there spending the money and who it is in the family who makes the buying decision. I think all too often we are looking what it is that we like not what the Mom who is looking for something to do with her kids for the day or on vacation. Mark A. Frazier

Author:	PCook [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
PennCentral4321 wrote: Quote: The current very low interest rates on retirement savings are going to have a profound effect on the "baby boomers" in retirement, because they will have relatively little interest income coming in. Many of them will be working more years in order to delay dipping into their retirement savings, so it is likely that fewer will be volunteering. The trend is quite ominous for all organizations that are highly dependent on volunteer help. So does this mean that we sit idly by and wait for the baby boomers to die off and close the doors? It means that all organizations that are heavily dependent on volunteers will have to make even greater efforts at promoting their organization and seeking new members, and it is going to need to be done against competition from other groups that have the same needs for volunteer help. Then hope that at least a few of the people who chose to keep working rather than retiring have some disposable income they can offer as financial supporters. PC

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Author:	boilerwash [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
I've said it a dozen times and I'll say it a dozen more. The younger people you need for your organization ARE out there (I'm one of them) but you're going to have to stop hoarding everything like personal toys and let younger people actually (gasp) -touch things-. Once your group finally starts trading kids some stick time in the cab instead of telling them to screw off and go find your groups beat to hell lawn mower and push it around every time they show up, you'll start getting younger members. This isn't the rocket science people make it out to be. If you make your group enjoyable for younger people they'll join. If you act like a bunch of old stuck up farts THEY WON'T it's that easy.

Author:	PennCentral4321 [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
Quote: The younger people you need for your organization ARE out there (I'm one of them) but you're going to have to stop hoarding everything like personal toys and let younger people actually (gasp) -touch things-. Once your group finally starts trading kids some stick time in the cab instead of telling them to screw off and go find your groups beat to hell lawn mower and push it around every time they show up, you'll start getting younger members. Biolerwash, I have felt this way for years and have seen way too many young people loose interest. I also have experienced and seen the "Initiation days" one place I was involved with had a 20 hours requirement of "general labor" before you were allowed near the trains. At the time I understood that was a get to know you period for both sides. That 20 hours was followed by starting training and a working your way up. I will follow that up with asking as a young person what would you think would be a good way to have training that would encourage young people to get and stay involved? Not only that at what age group should interest be encouraged? I seriously ask these questions as I am working on developing a mentoring program to get new young interest. I strongly believe that the young people are out future and they bring a completely new set of skills and knowledge to the table that we have never seen before. Quote: It means that all organizations that are heavily dependent on volunteers will have to make even greater efforts at promoting their organization and seeking new members, and it is going to need to be done against competition from other groups that have the same needs for volunteer help. Then hope that at least a few of the people who chose to keep working rather than retiring have some disposable income they can offer as financial supporters. PC PC, You are right there are many things that are competing for people's time. Not only that Volunteering does cost the volunteer not only their time but in many cases it cost them money to volunteer. I am also at a loss to understand the mindset that people need to be retired to volunteer. Maybe we need to be looking at what would make our organizations more attractive to be a part of. What if some of the ones that are struggling let new younger blood bring their ideas to the fore front? Some of these young minds have great ideas as to how to make things more attractive to a new generation. Not only that they have knowledge of ways to turn their talents into things that can make money. Is it possible that if we were to let the next generation do some things it could have a snowball effect? New ideas making new interest and income allowing to do it again... My thoughts in starting this thread was to figure out what we need to do to get the attention of the next generation that will continue the work that has been started and what tools and training will the need to compete in the 21st Century. They will be facing a totally new set of challenges than have been faced over the last 50 years. Let the discussion continue. Mark A. Frazier

Author:	boilerwash [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
Quote: I will follow that up with asking as a young person what would you think would be a good way to have training that would encourage young people to get and stay involved? Not only that at what age group should interest be encouraged? I seriously ask these questions as I am working on developing a mentoring program to get new young interest. I strongly believe that the young people are out future and they bring a completely new set of skills and knowledge to the table that we have never seen before. -Start them around 17. I.E. high school kids THAT HAVE CARS and the free time to get involved about once a week or bi-weekly. -Check and see if the local highschools offer any sort of vocational classes like welding courses, automotive, shop classes, etc. Theres alot less of them doing this these days but the ones that do obviously will have at least a couple of kids that are mechanically inclined. -If the local schools don't have vocational courses don't give up as the majority of them are now requiring that all students do X amount of volunteering in order to graduate. Simply advertise at the schools that do this and you'll get some nibbles of interest. If you treat them well they might stick around. -When it comes to training INTERACTION is key. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET THEM TOUCH SOME THINGS!!!! Show them how to pull couplers, do up air hoses, show them how the brake systems work up close, GET THEM IN THE CAB and show them how stuff works. Start them off slowly and show them how all this stuff works and progressively let them get their own hands on this stuff more and more. -If they can prove that they're not an idiot let them do something on the train after some preliminary training with a bit of supervision. They're not going to stick around for long if all they do is sit in the clubhouse basement and listen to you read aloud out of the groups rulebook. -BE UPFRONT WITH THEM FROM THE START. You explain to them that this is a "work for play" business. You cut the grass one saturday - you run the locomotive the next, so on and so forth. The ones that stick around after having that explained are the ones that will do good. -KEEP YOUR WORD. Don't feed potential volunteers a bunch of BS about getting to run engines and do train stuff when all your looking for is someone you can treat like a workhorse to keep the grass mowed. The two museums here in central KY do this and thats the reason they have ridiculous turn over rates, new volunteers pay their fees, get treated like crap right off the bat, and THEY LEAVE. I can sit here and write a book about this but the simple fact is DON'T ACT LIKE @$$HOLES and you can get volunteers. That seems to be the one thing that museums that whine about not being able to get people can't understand.

Author:	Mark Z. Yerkes [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
I can't count the number of times I've made suggestions in groups, both online and in real life, for things to do, and have been shot down. I've basically had to embrace my status as a foamer, because it enables me to follow this passion without dealing with stubborn old members. I've seen it in other places as well (I work at a honeymoon resort for a summer job, and the entire marketing team for the hotel is a group of individuals and the youngest is in their late 40s). Something the older generation needs to accept is that they're not going to be around forever to do things the way they want to do. If this area of interest is to survive, the older generation needs to teach the younger generation the ways of the trade and except the new ideas the the younger generation are bringing to the table.

Author:	Randolph R. Ruiz [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
Developing formal volunteer recruitment and mentorship programs would be an excellent idea for our museums. Other nonprofits rely upon outreach and training to attract volunteers, whereas we seem to expect them to just show up. The California State Railroad Museum has a formal process for recruiting and training docents, but I am not aware of any of our institutions actively reaching out to attract volunteers for restoration and operation. I appreciate the comments above about appealing to younger members. Where else would one go to recruit volunteers, especially ones that may already have appropriate skills? I could think of a few places around here in the Bay Area... vocational schools, trade publications, large employers. Such an effort to attract volunteers would need to be matched with a program to match these people to projects and mentors to be successful. Is your project hurting for a machinist or a carpenter? It might be a good idea to focus recruitment efforts on who you need. As far as operations go, I do not see the necessity of linking "work" with "play." The organizations I know of that operate regularly need crews, but these people need to be trained and vetted. Subjecting these folks to classes and examinations is absolutely necessary. I can not help but mention that the subjects of volunteer recruitment, training, and management are amongst the many covered by various Nonprofit Management programs such as the ones I mentioned above.

Author:	wesp [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
Rudy and others - Great comments. One of the volunteer epiphanies we had at NCTM was to let the volunteer or new member find their way. Prior to this we'd immediately assume that a mechanic wanted to work in the shop and an accountant would be good manager/administrator and guide him/her in that direction. At some point in dawned on the leadership that folks often came to us to do something different than what they did all week. Once that reality was allowed to play out we found we had improved retention of new recruits. We've done many things to motivate and recognize volunteers including events and informal gatherings. From time to time we have the opportunity to nominate someone for volunteer recognition in the press or through a recognition program offered by our visitors bureau and another one offered by county government. This outside recognition goes a long way for both the individual and the museum. Wesley

Author:	PCook [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
There are many possibilities for museums, particularly those with operable equipment, to offer clinics to their members that would allow them to enhance their ability to benefit the museum as well as learn new skills that are of value in the railroad industry and other areas of the business community. Doing this is also a good way to improve the educational program development capability within your organization that can be adapted to programs for the public. Typical examples of some topic areas that a museum can support and are also applicable to many other industries could include Diesel engine maintenance and troubleshooting, and reading physical schematic wiring diagrams and using them for troubleshooting equipment. Making instruction available on computer skills like the editing and maintenance of websites, and the use of PowerPoint and ProShow may be attractive to younger members in particular. Some of this fits within the realm of business support functions that you might already do anyway. If you can encourage your members who are good at explaining things to think in terms of developing and presenting clinics on topics they enjoy, they can leave the next generation a gift of knowledge. PC

Author:	Les Beckman [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
wesp wrote: One of the volunteer epiphanies we had at NCTM was to let the volunteer or new member find their way. Prior to this we'd immediately assume that a mechanic wanted to work in the shop and an accountant would be good manager/administrator and guide him/her in that direction. At some point in dawned on the leadership that folks often came to us to do something different than what they did all week. Once that reality was allowed to play out we found we had improved retention of new recruits. Wesley Wesley - True! We once had a member who was a lawyer. He did some very nice work on a restoration project. Then someone mentioned that the museum had some legal issues. He went to another museum where he has been active for many years in train service.

Author:	Bruce Duensing [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: TNG, how are we doing on the preservation and the future
I think the challenge begins with an exposure to preservation at the beginning in terms of having an audience or participants to begin with, that has been a dance of catch as catch can, local bootstrapping and ad hoc improvisational strategies..I think the larger picture has to be looked at beyond local "plans" From what I can see, the common interests between industrial archeology, museums, non rail preservation organizations, universities and the Class Ones have yet to fully exploit an opportunity to cross coordinate shared common goals in the preservation of our countries industrial past by not having had a real dialog..amongst each other. A plan that benefits the survival of our common history This would be a very interesting seminar to attend. The historic preservation and education movement are seem to be incapable of expressing the value of this expression of national pride in a consistently cogent, clear message, outside of commemorative ventures that are few are far between. One would think is one of those valuable intangibles we are in dire need of within the sort of identity crisis this country has been undergoing. All of them seem to be at national cross purposes, local in nature and are largely stumbled upon by the public by accident. I don't think this area of a need to educate the public by exposure has been sufficiently mined as an aggregate sum as it has no one single public face. Look at the popularity of American Pickers or Restoration and the narrative that introduces each show. The trail leads back to perhaps The Antiques Roadshow that history and commerce are not separated either now or then.

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