While a whole lot smaller, Simons Wrecking No 2 was in worse condition than 470...
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| MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33737 |
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| Author: | Terry Harper [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
The City of Waterville issued an RFP for either the restoration or removal of the 470. The deadline was August 1st. No word on responses. Somehow this slipped under my radar! http://www.waterville-me.gov/news/article.php?id=266 |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
There may still be a decent locomotive under all the rust, but take this into account: They've willfully allowed her to deteriorate to a point where now she needs a new tender tank and coal bin, the cab is Swiss cheese, the firing deck is worse. All her jewelry is either stolen, smashed, or rusted to threads. I think you will see her become a monument with her bell and one driver. That's cheap and dirty. Restoring her cosmetically will probably cost about $250,000. To run her, multiply by 6. I wonder if Steamtown would take her as a parts loco? Coles Land Transportation Museum in Bangor might be an answer. |
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| Author: | Stephen Hussar [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
Hopefully she'll stay in Maine and run on the Rockland branch... Stephen |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
Who wrote the evaluation? General opinion - conforms with current professional methods and expectations? |
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| Author: | Stephen Hussar [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
While a whole lot smaller, Simons Wrecking No 2 was in worse condition than 470...
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| Author: | Terry Harper [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
Stephen, I looked at Simons Wrecking when it was in the scrap yard...what a wonderful transformation! As for the 470. The question is less how much and who wrote it but what now? Will it be scrapped or saved? |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
The package is one that is probably locally done, with some degree of understanding of the process and is pretty inclusive of such things as a shelter and interpretive program. I haven't laid hands on her so i can't comment on any of the numbers. The time estimates seem to be based on a pretty bare-bones set of capabilities as might be found in an outdoor project with tools in the back of the contractors truck, in an equipped facility I'd expect a faster (and cheaper) job. The level of technical comprehension.....well, the writer seems to know what systems are there, but if they are in any way "complicated" from his perspective, he wants to throw them away and replace them with something simpler that he understands already. The boiler survey process is also not entirely laid out rationally. I'm putting this on the level of something that a weekend museum volunteer might compile with some good advice from more sophisticated museum managers backing him up. It's way better than a lot of what I've seen. 470 is a nicely proportioned display - I wish them the best in finding a way to restore and preserve her. I didn't find any mention of a business need for restoring her to operating condition anywhere in the documentation. Presumably there isn't one or it would have been mentioned. dave |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
When I first proposed a total cosmetic rebuild and shelter, away back in 2004, Waterville's City Council was chaired by Mayor Paul LePage. Today he is Gov. Paul LePage, and his effectiveness as an informed Governor is constantly called into question. Expect no help from the state or state museum under his administration. There were numerous agencies that came forward and offered to adopt the locomotive, and these were not merely wishful thinkers. The word needs to get out in order to sve this priceless relic. Would Steamtown take her? Would Age of Steam take her? |
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| Author: | Dave Stephenson [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:26 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad | |||
I have an early connection to this locomotive. In the summer of 1954, we were on vacation in New England, and just happened to be be going through Waterville. It must have been just after 470 was put on display. I took the wedge shot and my father took the closeup (for obvious reasons). According to my records it was 7-13-54. I've seen her since, much more bedraggled, but still showing classic lines. I wish her well.
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
The 470 was put on display in June, 1954. She was still steaming when an ALCO Diesel pushed her onto the display track in front of the old Waterville station. When the station was destroyed under the guise of urban renewal, she was towed into the yard alongside the roundhouse, and stood there for about three years, in more or less intact condition. The locomotive was then dragged to her current location and put on a plinth, alongside the Waterville tower. At that time, around 1970, her drivers turned very poorly, with a great deal of dragging. Since then, the locomotive has received no care other than a coat of paint and asbestos removal. During that process, her jacket was lost and other parts simply cut away. Getting her out of Waterville and into the hands of a qualified caretaker is the only hope for this locomotive. |
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| Author: | BML1149 [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
Hi, Just for the record, I wrote the evaluation for 470. I had found out about the committee that had formed to look into the restoration of the 470 and decided to write this evaluation based on what knowledge I had on steam locomotives at the time. I felt that it would be helpful to the committee members to see just what they would be getting into in undertaking a project like this. What it basically boils down to is that it's going to take someone with some deep pockets and some good leadership to be able to give this locomotive what it deserves for preservation. I would be happy to further discuss ideas if you PM me. Leverett Fernald |
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| Author: | Jim Vaitkunas [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:49 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad | |||
Here are a couple of photos I took while passing through Waterville, Maine on July 17, 2010. Thanks!
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| Author: | East of Eden [ Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
The city of Waterville owns the engine, and they are looking to remove it. At some point asbestos and the boiler jacket were removed. Not knowing the history, wasn't the 470 Club or some other organization caring for her? I would assume every New England tourist museum would have a look at her for display. BTW: Is the engine on the Federal Register of Historic Places? |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
And "just for the record", Leverett knows his way around operating museum equipment. He's a good friend to railroad preservation, acting as CMO of the "Downeast Scenic Railway" in Ellsworth, Maine. After the group "Friends of the 470" was formed, Leverett was (and remains) the best friend the locomotive has. While other were selling magnets and brownies to rehab the locomotive, Leverett was underneath and inside, doing the first inspection she had in five decades. |
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| Author: | rjenkins [ Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MEC 470 RFP Maybe Good, Maybe Bad |
I have seen engines in far worse shape that have since undergone complete transformations (see Simons Wrecking no. 2, Norfolk & Western 1134, and Minneapolis & St. Louis 457 for specific examples). Nothing is impossible, only prohibitively expensive. |
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