It's time to paint the new galvanize/galvaneal jacket that we just wrestled into place. Our original plan was to remove the jacket piece by piece to an auto paint facility, have it painted and reassemble. We have come to realize that this would make a very difficult task of reassembly without doing a lot of damage to the brand new paint job. The alternative is to paint in place. This has some drawbacks such as building a temporary booth and ventilating it. In addition, we don't have anyone with spraying skills. This leaves us with the improbable option of roller/brush application. On the other hand, experienced auto painters say that acceptable results can be acheived this way and that it's used on large equipment and boats where traditional methods are impractical.
We want to use Imron and are in the process of contacting Dupont to see what their take on it is. What kind of experience do you have with this?

wrj494@aol.com

Sorry, the only way I have ever applied Imron type paints is as a reduced spray. I did once paint my old pickup with some leftover PPG Ditzler by brush and it came out OK but with evident brush marks.

I have rolled and brushed other industrial (but not automotive) enamels with good results. PPG makes one industrial paint I have used on steel passenger cars which is so environmentally innocuous it is used in hospitals and school cafeterias. It is also water based.

I don't think method of application (provided it is appropriate to the paint product used) is truly important to getting a good finish relative to surface preperation. Without the availability of experienced paint blowers and associated environmental considerations, I would be looking for a high quality manually applied industrial enamel rather than Imron style paints.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Try Interlux Brightside Polyurethane. It is very brush friendly and durable. It is available from most boat dealers and marinas.



Interlux paint
kelly@strasburgrailroad.com

What locomotive is this for? I'd love to see a steamer with automotive quality paint, and a nice wax job. ;)

I think 3751 is the shiniest "post-post season" steamer I've seen.

> It's time to paint the new
> galvanize/galvaneal jacket that we just
> wrestled into place. Our original plan was
> to remove the jacket piece by piece to an
> auto paint facility, have it painted and
> reassemble. We have come to realize that
> this would make a very difficult task of
> reassembly without doing a lot of damage to
> the brand new paint job. The alternative is
> to paint in place. This has some drawbacks
> such as building a temporary booth and
> ventilating it. In addition, we don't have
> anyone with spraying skills. This leaves us
> with the improbable option of roller/brush
> application. On the other hand, experienced
> auto painters say that acceptable results
> can be acheived this way and that it's used
> on large equipment and boats where
> traditional methods are impractical.
> We want to use Imron and are in the process
> of contacting Dupont to see what their take
> on it is. What kind of experience do you
> have with this?

Imron was used by Doyle McCormick and Company on the SVRy #19 restoration. It is a glossy durable finish. It has been 6 years since rebuild and she is still looking very good. Perhaps Doyle will tell you how it was applied.

dan


svry@attbi.com

Dupont Imron was for a while the "fad" paint of the preservation scene, with quite a few preservation targets of the 1970s and 1980s coated with it--I recall specifically the PRR-restored GG1's.

One impression I got from watching the weathering on certain locomotives, however, was this: If the painted object was actively used/operated/fired up, it weathered well. If the painted object just sat there, it went to hell. The prime example I point to is/was PRR GG1 4935, which I believe was painted with Imron in its Amtrak repainting and went completely to heck as it sat dead outside at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. And I have heard one party involved with restoration call the alleged durability of Imrom "one of the best sham jobs" ever pulled on the preservation community, considering the additional expense and proprietary formulas involved.

Now, I could be completely full of hot air. I would love to hear from those who actually had to buy the paint, can show the receipts, show how long that paint job lasted, how long other paint lasted in identical circumstances, etc. My only suggestion is to do a LOT of research and asking around, and not to blindly fall under a pixie-like spell because of one trademark name.

lner4472@bcpl.net

I think the folks at Nevada State RR Museum have done quite a bit of painting on their antique locomotives with a brush, using modern hardened paints, with a special additive. I've done a lot of touch up on diesels with both brush (foam brush is smoothest, but they deteriorate quickly) and small roller, with decent results. The 494 is an old engine that pre-dates spray painting, so brush marks are entirely appropriate. I'm sure the people at NSRM can give good advice. The longest lasting paints I've seen on diesels were clear coated, but that probably isn't very authentic in your case.

ryarger@rypn.org

We've used DuPont Imron at the San Diego Railroad Museum. but don't have enough longevity to comment on ultimate durability. I have two comments, however, which may help you.

One advantage of Imron is that DuPont has a great number of paint chips for now-historic colors. We recently painted a Santa Fe RPO car, and I got paint chips for both pre-WWII and post-war "Pullman Green." The person to contact is George Rust (yes, that's his name) at the DuPont office in Delaware. Last I talked with him, the number was 800-572-1568, press, 2, press 2. He's a great resource.

Second, whether you chose Imron or another product, you will want, if possible, to use a similar two-part, high solids polyurethane enamel. Most industrial paint manufacturers have equivalents of Imron. These types of paints have an isocynate activator. This means they are VERY DANGEROUS to apply. I will not allow volunteers to use such paint. One has to be a professional, and have an independent air supply; without it, the paint will suck the air out of your lungs and you are gone! So if anyone wants to use top quality (and relatively costly) industrial paint, budget for professional application. It's worth it. Consult with industrial painting concerns, ask their recommendations on product longevity; also talk with paint company representatives, who can offer recommendations on painters who have used their products.

Good luck, and BE CAREFUL.

kornweib@mail.sdsu.edu

> Dear Sandy:
I painted the 0-6-0 at Bensenville, IL in c.1978 and the 2-8-2 at Mendota, IL (formerly at Ottawa, IL) in c.1983 with Imron, with good results. I haven't seen the 2-8-2 recently, but a few years ago I stopped by to look at the 0-6-0 and the paint was doing fine except for rust streaks and some chipping from rust at the edges of the trim strip around the coal bunker that I should have caulked.
At The Valley, we have switched to Fulthane (another DuPont product, and no, I do not have stock in DuPonte) because it is a lot cheaper than Imron. We still use Imron for touch up on Imron painted cars, etc.
As I have mentioned previously: a good paint job is dependant on good surface preparation, if corners are cut there, you will not have a finish that will last.
J.David

jdconrad@snet.net

Last i knew a galvanized metal finish is very difficult to have paint stick to no mater what the type. I have even used special primers for galvanize with mixed results.

Al P.

> It's time to paint the new
> galvanize/galvaneal jacket that we just
> wrestled into place. Our original plan was
> to remove the jacket piece by piece to an
> auto paint facility, have it painted and
> reassemble. We have come to realize that
> this would make a very difficult task of
> reassembly without doing a lot of damage to
> the brand new paint job. The alternative is
> to paint in place. This has some drawbacks
> such as building a temporary booth and
> ventilating it. In addition, we don't have
> anyone with spraying skills. This leaves us
> with the improbable option of roller/brush
> application. On the other hand, experienced
> auto painters say that acceptable results
> can be acheived this way and that it's used
> on large equipment and boats where
> traditional methods are impractical.
> We want to use Imron and are in the process
> of contacting Dupont to see what their take
> on it is. What kind of experience do you
> have with this?


alp@cheshire.net

> We recently painted a Santa Fe RPO
> car, and I got paint chips for both pre-WWII
> and post-war "Pullman Green."

Santa Fe did not use the same green that the Pullman company did. Santa Fe green has more yellow in it than the Pullman color. Likewise the Union Pacific and the Southern Pacific had a slighty different olive green. Not all passenger car greens are "Pullman Green."

Paint chips (or "drift panels" in the industry) are the best way to go. With the changing chemcial make up of paints old paint numbers often cannot be formulated; but a good dry sample can be matched. If you have a drift panel from a railroad company you take that in and get a match to the current paint formulations.

A recomdendation is that if you have a paint mixed to a sample on a car, etc. that you make up your own "drift panels" and keep them in a dark file until you need to paint the same color again.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

I can't vouch for 3751, but if you find yourself in the wilds of Montana, the Alder Gulch Shortline #12 (30' gauge Baldwin 2-8-0) is quite the cats meow in the operating spit and polish category.
However, is there a way to keep waxed sufaces and brasswork polished up on a HOT engine? Even with jacketing, it's hard to polish up the surface without streaking et al. Ideas?

> What locomotive is this for? I'd love to see
> a steamer with automotive quality paint, and
> a nice wax job. ;)

> I think 3751 is the shiniest "post-post
> season" steamer I've seen.


mikefrommontana@juno.com

In 1994-5, Railroad Museum of New England prepped and painted New Haven RS-3 529, using DuPont automotive materials. The entire unit (except the trucks) was stripped to bare metal, base-primed with Rustoleum 1069 red primer (in sections as the metal was stripped), then finish-primed with DuPont 2600-series primer (an epoxy, as I recall). The finish coats were DuPont Centari, with the various gloss activator packages. The gloss activators contain the (deadly) isocyanates that are also found in Imron. A supplied air respirator for both the painter and his helper was used.

The locomotive has been outside and in active service on RMNE's Naugatuck Railroad since mid-1996, and still looks good. Regular washing (more regular than we seem to be able to do!) and an annual waxing (yes, we did skip a year or two!) keep 529 looking pretty nice.

We also did a caboose in non-activated Centari, in late 1985 (traditional red, applied over sandblasted and primed body), and it has never been waxed, is washed by the rain, and still looks real good. The reds usually fade badly, but this car has not.

One thing we have noticed with Centari is that numerous (4-5 on the RS-3) light color coats work best-- try to put it on heavy and it runs right off. We have been using an HVLP "turbine" spray rig.

http://www.rmne.org
hpincus@mindspring.com

> I painted the 0-6-0 at Bensenville, IL in
> c.1978 and the 2-8-2 at Mendota, IL
> (formerly at Ottawa, IL) in c.1983 with
> Imron, with good results. I haven't seen the
> 2-8-2 recently, but a few years ago I
> stopped by to look at the 0-6-0 and the
> paint was doing fine except for rust streaks
> and some chipping from rust at the edges of
> the trim strip around the coal bunker that I
> should have caulked.
> At The Valley, we have switched to Fulthane
> (another DuPont product, and no, I do not
> have stock in DuPonte) because it is a lot
> cheaper than Imron. We still use Imron for
> touch up on Imron painted cars, etc.
> As I have mentioned previously: a good paint
> job is dependant on good surface
> preparation, if corners are cut there, you
> will not have a finish that will last.
> J.David

J. David:

I saw 2-8-2 #4978 at Mendota last year and she still looks excellent! FYI.

Les


midlandblb@cs.com

I painted my old 1946 Chevrolet with IMRON. Was beautiful, especially after applying a little carnuba wax. (So slick you couldn't sit on the fenders.) Do be careful, as there are a number of nasty toxic vapors in addition to the one mentioned above in IMRON.

Side note: I had left the car baking in the shop for an hour or two when the boss' stepson set part of the shop on fire (accidentally) with a gasoline spill. The masking paper burned off the grill, but the IMRON was mildly scorched and blistered around the grill. I sanded the burned spots off the next day and reshot the hood and fenders the next weekend. Try that with regular enamel!

Scott G.

greensm@swbell.net