Anybody out there designed or built a hydraulic drive train for railroad equipment? Advice and horror stories welcome.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> Anybody out there designed or built a
> hydraulic drive train for railroad
> equipment? Advice and horror stories
> welcome.

> Dave

The Germans use diesel-hydraulics extensively. I believe Voith makes the transmissions.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Diesel-Hydraulics were used extensively on 1st-generation steam replacement locomotives in germany, and also on the British Rail's Western Region (ex-Great Western Railway). All the British Rail units have been retired; some are running at railway preservation societies. I'm not so sure about the German units; I believe that they have mostly been superceded by diesel-electrics.

Southern Pacific and D&RGW tried importing 4000HP (2 Maybeck diesel engines per loco, each 2000HP) Krauss-Maffei cab units from Germany in the 1960s. S.P. also later bought similiar hood units manufactured by Alco under license from Germany. All these units failed eventually because they were designed to get much more intensive maintenance than S.P. provided.

The great attraction of hydraulic transmissions is (1) eliminating all those maddening electrical problems - ground faults, commutator flashovers, etc., and (2) coupling all wheels together in a single truck by linked drive shafts, which tends to reuce slipping. One disadvantage is maintenance of the cardan shafts, U-joints, and hydraulic transmission. I have read that S.P. engine crews were also leery of what would happen if a U-joint failed underneath the cab... apparently one cab was badly damaged by this sort of accident.

Since the 1960, microelectronic technology has had probably hundreds of billions of dollars invested in it. Hydaulic technology just hasn't had anywhere near the same level of investment and improvement. For example, new solid-state power-control components (SCRs, etc), computer technology, AC generators with solid-state rectifiers, "AC" traction motors (regulated by fast circuits to have the same high starting tractive effort as old-style DC traction motors) have solved the wheelslip, reliability, and power-control problems that plagued early diesel-electrics. This is how EMD and GE have been able to push power levels from 350 HP/axle (on an FT) to 1000 HP/axle.


doug.w.debs@fcimg.com

There were quite a number of gas or diesel hydraulic industrial switchers built by such firms as Plymouth.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

>Dear Dave:
Shop Services (the late Stan Mathews' old outfit) converted several steam locomotives to hydraulic drive, the last ones being for a theme park at Fiesta, Texas.
"Beatrice" (H.K.Porter c/n 4643), one of the Opryland locos, was dealt with in a similar fashion, however I do not know who did the design/work on that one. The last time I was at Opryland the fellow in charge of the shop said that the conversion had been cheaper than a new boiler, but that the engine was underpowered for it's weight and burned up the hydraulic "motors". I do not know if the problem was resolved prior to Opryland going belly up.
The real problem is that while it is possible to make a conversion, if the starting point is a steam locomotive, it was designed as such and hence not suitable for hydraulics without a total rethinking of the machine.
Question: what became of "Beatrice". Can anyone tell me where it is now? Ken Riddle has "Rachel" the other Opryland loco. (thankfully not butchered).
J. David


jdconrad@snet.net

No butchering of steam locomotives is contemplated.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> Question: what became of
> "Beatrice". Can anyone tell me
> where it is now? Ken Riddle has
> "Rachel" the other Opryland loco.
> (thankfully not butchered).
> J. David

J. David,

I'll ask on a Park Trains list I belong to if anyone knows where "Beatrice" is. "Elizabeth", another such conversion based on a Mackie Clemens Davenport 0-4-0T, is at AstroWorld in Houston, Texas.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

SEPTA has several railroad work type cars powered by hydraulic drives. I was in there shops recently and saw a pair of freight car style trucks with axle gearboxes and drive shafts to be coneected to a body mounted hydraulc motor. I believe Brookville locomotive made them if my memory serves me correctly.

mtillger@enter.net

Perhaps the simplest and most widespread use of hydraulic propulsion in a railroad application is the Budd RDC. Allison automatic transmissions were tied by driveshafts to the inner axle of each truck (or, in the case of the RDC-9 trailer, only one truck).



johni@warwick.net

Tom and Ray should give us all a dope slap for missing RDC's. In addition, a lot of roadway maintenance equipment uses hydraulic transmissions account all their functions are hydraulic.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

J. David,

Sorry about the delay. I finally asked about "Beatrice"; here is the reply I got:

"Last word I heard (about a year and a half ago) was that she is running at Six Flags America (formerly Wild World) in Largo, MD just outside the east edge of the Washington, D.C. belt line. I have seen pictures of a diesel in a tunnel under the roller coaster, but have yet to see pictures of Beatrice there. Does anyone have any?"

If I hear anything more, I'll let you know.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> Shop Services (the late Stan Mathews' old
> outfit) converted several steam locomotives
> to hydraulic drive, the last ones being for
> a theme park at Fiesta, Texas.
> "Beatrice" (H.K.Porter c/n 4643),
> one of the Opryland locos, was dealt with in
> a similar fashion, however I do not know who
> did the design/work on that one. The last
> time I was at Opryland the fellow in charge
> of the shop said that the conversion had
> been cheaper than a new boiler, but that the
> engine was underpowered for it's weight and
> burned up the hydraulic "motors".
> I do not know if the problem was resolved
> prior to Opryland going belly up.
> The real problem is that while it is
> possible to make a conversion, if the
> starting point is a steam locomotive, it was
> designed as such and hence not suitable for
> hydraulics without a total rethinking of the
> machine.
> Question: what became of
> "Beatrice". Can anyone tell me
> where it is now? Ken Riddle has
> "Rachel" the other Opryland loco.
> (thankfully not butchered).
> J. David


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net