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| O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33876 |
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| Author: | wesp [ Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
Here is the latest on a proposal to move the DELTA QUEEN to New Smyrna, FL and gut her mechanical spaces for use as a hotel. http://www.steamboats.org/forum/save-delta-queen/4808-vote-its-not-good-post30710.html#post30710 Wesley |
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| Author: | Mark D. [ Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
If that happens, it's the end of the line for the old girl. No chance to ever get just the right govt. permission to operate again, since nobody's going to spend the money to re-power it, with all the special conditions for it to be allowed to operate. But then, it's probable that the operating economics just don't justify anyone even trying to get it back in overnight passenger service anyway. Mark D. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
I think it's the hull and the crew, not the powerplant. dave |
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| Author: | dinwitty [ Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
years ago as a kid I had this 45 rpm record of the steam calliope being played. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
I am so numb over the loss of historic vessels. Steam Tug Reliant, National Maritime Museum Wapama Nobska Lansdowne R.I.P. So many others on the critical list. |
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| Author: | Nova55 [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
Unfortunately Marine preservation makes RR preservation look like a walk in the park. |
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| Author: | survivingworldsteam [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
softwerkslex wrote: I am so numb over the loss of historic vessels. Steam Tug Reliant, National Maritime Museum Wapama Nobska Lansdowne R.I.P. So many others on the critical list. While maintaining my Surviving World Steamship database, it had the feel of a death watch; most of the recent updates have been this ship or that ship going to the breakers or being sunk by the Navy as a target vessel. So many more could be added to your list: the NYC Tugboat #16, Susan Elizabeth, Catalina, Lincoln Castle, Ryde Queen, New Bedford, Manxman II, Norway/France, much of the "ghost fleet", the last two steam powered Staten Island ferries, Kinsman Enterprise, and many others of the last Great Lakes steam powered frieghters. At least 153 steamships have been scrapped since 2000; with as you say many others endangered. |
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| Author: | rjenkins [ Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
The sad thing about the latest threat to the Delta Queen is that the people who are in a position to put a stop to this nonsense don't seem to realize that what is being proposed will completely destroy her. Either that or they just don't care. |
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| Author: | Jim Herron [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
There are a lot people who "care" about the Delta Queen. The problem is lack of money and three members of the New Smyrna Beach city council (including the mayor) who have fallen for the BS from Wayne Heller, the man who is doing this. (There were two votes against his proposal.) The DQ is currently leased from Xanterra to some folks in Chattanooga who are running it as a hotel and have maintained it (including it's boilers and engines) in nearly operable condition. Heller is buying the boat out from under them, basically stealing their business. He plans to gut the boat of it's boilers and engines to create more usable space as was done to the Delta King in Sacramento. This will forever ruin the DQ's chances of ever steaming again. Add to that the potential for hurricane damage and salt damage from the water and the air. He plans to breach the twin hulls for water, sewer and utility connections at the permanent docking he wants to build. He is going to permanently wreck the Delta Queen for a five year lease of her site in New Smyrna Beach. If it isn't a successful venture, there is a good chance that the DQ will be scrapped. If not, he will have ruined it anyway. He has a bad history as well. In 2008, he purchased a Russian ship to start a cruise line. He even began selling tickets for cruises before deciding that the economy was going bad and shutting the company down and scrapping the ship. In Winter Park, FL, he purchased a historic mansion named the Casa Feliz that was on the National Register of Historic Places then began to tear it down to build a new 27,000 SF mansion of his own. He was stopped by preservationists who contacted the city which then pulled his permits. The house was donated to the city and eventually moved. It took him over 10 years to build the new mansion which has an unfinished upper floor and is reported to be the largest in the Orlando area. When a reporter asked him about tearing down the original home on the property, his response was, "When people drive by and see the new house, they'll say Wow". This is the LAST person who should be entrusted with the Delta Queen and it looks like he well may be. Does anyone on here have a direct contact with Xanterra or Phillip Anshutz? -Jim Herron |
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| Author: | robertmacdowell [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
Nova55 wrote: Unfortunately Marine preservation makes RR preservation look like a walk in the park. Yeah, really. Multiply all the costs by twenty and divide the core competence by two. Fortunately, multiply the fanbase by 5, and their wealth by at least 2. Not enough, clearly. Even if they own the boat, they are still forever getting evicted from docks, often with loss of the boat. Trouble is, marine doesn't need to own their 'railroad', but does need to own suitable land adjacent to it, and get equipment out of the weather (in this case the water, not the rain.) Inheriting an old navy yard with a set of dry docks would be an option, or do it ”greenfield" by bulldozing weir walls to make a "lock" of sorts to float the boat up into a basin whose bottom is above natural water level. Then drain it, for a wheatfield drydock. Now you can maintain the boat "dry" and at leisure, yet reverse the process to put the boat to sea again. As always the trick is location, location, location. Achievable, safe, and near the volunteers and paying visitors. My impression is due to the difficulty of getting this location and creating the weir walls and drydocks, economies of scale would favor it hosting a number of vessels. I think old navy yards would be too urban to be affordable or safe. There are a couple just north of SFO for instance, but you couldn't afford them. Nor would you want Hunters Point. |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
. |
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| Author: | bbunge [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
Like like like. That same Congressman, before losing his seat, was praised by some in the rail industry. I always thought that was risky since he had a history with the Queen and clearly was willing to throw an entire small industry if the right buyer came along. Bob |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
Kelly, fair point. But note that congressman is long gone, and yet the issue is not resolved. Is the Queen really a going business? What has happened in the interim years is that a new faux paddler overnight diesel boat has been constructed and entered service. That and the resurrected American Queen, which has some steam propulsion, pretty much satisfies the market by my estimate. A lot of political and business factors are obstacles. The DQ is not "low hanging fruit" from a business development point of view. Also, I sense that no region feels it owns the DQ. Back when the DQ was home ported in Cincinnati, we felt we owned her, but that was a long time ago. They moved her home port to New Orleans for cost reasons, I guess. You don't see Louisiana politicians making any noise about returning her to service. The DQ is everyone's friend, but no one's family. |
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| Author: | Kelly Anderson [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
. |
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| Author: | robertmacdowell [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: O/T Marine Preservation - DELTA QUEEN Update |
For-profit enterprise has a "bottom line". In the nonprofit sector, the bottom line is mission. Funds are just ways and means. If people want the DQ preserved, they should stop depending on the private sector to do it. It doesn't serve your mission except by luck, and that luck has run out. The boat is no longer able to be a profit making concern in historic trim. That happens to historic things. And then, don't go by Pemberton's example, preservation is NOT about whirlwinds of political machinations to bind up other people's assets to accomplish temporary limbo. That juggling act cannot last. If you want it preserved, get on firm ground. If you're not serious, admit it. The time to organize this stuff is BEFORE the fuse runs out on an artifact's profitability, so you're there to catch it when it falls, people will consider you to be a natural and obvious destination for the piece, and forces you don't even know about will align to help you with your mission. "Make no little plans," Burnham said: read the whole quote. |
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