With the acquisition of ex-Northern Pacific Alco HH660 #125 by the Northwest Railway Museum the task of finding a few parts begins. Two items that are needed is the original headlights for each end. The round type with bulb and reflector headlights have been replaced by a more modern dual sealed beam bulb setup that is for a EMD locomotive.

Anyone know of any sources?

Richard Wilkens
Northwest Railway Museum

> With the acquisition of ex-Northern Pacific
> Alco HH660 #125 by the Northwest Railway
> Museum the task of finding a few parts
> begins. Two items that are needed is the
> original headlights for each end. The round
> type with bulb and reflector headlights have
> been replaced by a more modern dual sealed
> beam bulb setup that is for a EMD
> locomotive.
When a single lamp at 60 volt is attach to a 75 volt wiring a resistance in inserter the is line. Either wiring at panel or at rear of the lamp and consist a adjustment.

> Anyone know of any sources?

> Richard Wilkens
> Northwest Railway Museum


owenpaulsen@att.net

> With the acquisition of ex-Northern Pacific
> Alco HH660 #125 by the Northwest Railway
> Museum the task of finding a few parts
> begins. Two items that are needed is the
> original headlights for each end. The round
> type with bulb and reflector headlights have
> been replaced by a more modern dual sealed
> beam bulb setup that is for a EMD
> locomotive.

> Anyone know of any sources?

> Richard Wilkens
> Northwest Railway Museum

Milwaukee 1603 needed one of these as it had a sealed beam conversion in the cab end. Fortunately, we have a S1 out back with the proper headlight assemblies that I can steal one from.

If you can find an old S series someplace with the old style "Golden Glow" headlights, they should work fine.

Off the top of my head I can't remember the proper diameter. However, if you get that dimension, I would imagine that the same assembly was used in various makes of locomotives. It might help locating one.

Todd Jones
IRM Diesel Dept.


milw104c@charter.net

This sort of backdating of a machine is deliberately erasing, therefore falsifying, history.

This is still wrong and should be regarded as unethical by anyone who is able to understand what a museum "original" is.

There really seems to be no point to altering a machine to what it was long ago. It has a perfectly honorable history, which enabled the machine to survive.

Okay, follow me here....

> This sort of backdating of a machine is
> deliberately erasing, therefore falsifying,
> history.

Um, I don't know where you are getting your standards, but even the Smithsonian backdates stuff, and they host an annual meeting with the AAM every year. It isn't erasing if you document your work, which I would imagine the people at the NRM are doing.

> This is still wrong and should be regarded
> as unethical by anyone who is able to
> understand what a museum
> "original" is.

So, are you calling the Smithsonian unethical, or how about Great Britain's National Railway Museum. They have the LNER A4 Class locomotive "Mallard" which they have backdated to its LNER, not BR appearance, including the restoration of full side skirting. The National Air and Space Museum recently completed a restoration of a rare World War II Japanese "Serin" bomber in which they had to reconstruct many parts, and essential backdate the plane to its WWII appearance.

> There really seems to be no point to
> altering a machine to what it was long ago.
> It has a perfectly honorable history, which
> enabled the machine to survive.

You logic is extremely flawed on many levels. For example, the above examples show that even the "best" museums in the world that preserve industrial artifacts are doing it all wrong. Or, it could mean that you have an elitist, messed up, and purely academic, and thus not applicable to the real world view of restoration and preservation. For pete's sake, they are replacing a headlight. By your logic, they shouldn't even change the crankcase oil in the locomotive because that would be altering it. Your view of preservation will never be accepted because it is not based in the real-world realities of the issue. Oh, and by the way, the NRM in York, Englad won a prestigous European Muesum Award last year, kind of like "European Museum of the Year" and it competed against some of the best museums in the world, so they must be doing something right by backdating stuff.


wilkidm@wku.edu

Jack,

Restoration is the process of returning something to its appearance at a particular point in time. When properly performed, Restoration is not falsifying history; it is simply presenting something as it once was. Museums and curators around the world consider Restoration an ethical practice. And it is one of the procedures described in the Secretary of the Interior's Standards for the Treatment of Historic Properties. I understand several railway museums use these standards for care of their MP&E collections.

The #125 appears nearly the same today as it did when delivered in 1941. The Northwest Railway Museum has a rare opportunity to tell an important story with this locomotive: it was only the second diesel electric locomotive on the Northern Pacific Railway. In addition, its first 8 years were spent in King County, within 40 miles of the Museum.

You claim there is no reason to alter a machine to what it once was. I completely disagree. Artifacts are tools used to educate. If the tools canÂ’t do the job, there is no reason to acquire them in the first place. But this by no means suggests an artifact should be changed into something that never was and that isn't what we are doing.

The #125's 1940's appearance has much greater educational value to our audience than its current appearance. And changing two headlights, adding footboards and giving it a coat of paint, can achieve this appearance. Falsifying history? I think not.

Richard R. Anderson
Executive Director
Northwest Railway Museum

> This sort of backdating of a machine is
> deliberately erasing, therefore falsifying,
> history.

> This is still wrong and should be regarded
> as unethical by anyone who is able to
> understand what a museum
> "original" is.

> There really seems to be no point to
> altering a machine to what it was long ago.
> It has a perfectly honorable history, which
> enabled the machine to survive.


Northwest Railway Museum
rra@trainmuseum.org

Thank you, Richard, for the thoughtful comments. I agree with you that restoration for interpretation purposes is beneficial. It must be a balance of the artifact and the mission of the historic preservation and presentation of the museum.

You don't want to start changing the appearance without a plan. I've seen people at other railroad museums change headlights on diesels (back date) without any immediate plan to repaint the unit. Any changes should be done a part of a planned and approved restoration project. Until at time, the artifact needs to be conserved as it came to the museum site.

Just my thoughts

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

> When a single lamp at 60 volt is attach to a
> 75 volt wiring a resistance in inserter the
> is line. Either wiring at panel or at rear
> of the lamp and consist a adjustment.

I myself have posted some odd things late at night or early in the morning.. but I don't think the above is written in the syntax of the english language. *baffled*

Brian,

I'm in complete agreement. Your comments reflect good, sound collection management practices.

In respect of the Northern Pacific #125, we developed outlines of interpretation and restoration plans before we even submitted a purchase bid.

Our museum (and perhaps others) recognizes that some past acquisitions did not belong in the collection. These objects were deaccessioned and have left the museum. All new acquisitions must be thoroughly justified in terms of their relationship to the mission, scope of collection statement, and collection management policy.

Richard R. Anderson

> Thank you, Richard, for the thoughtful
> comments. I agree with you that restoration
> for interpretation purposes is beneficial.
> It must be a balance of the artifact and the
> mission of the historic preservation and
> presentation of the museum.

> You don't want to start changing the
> appearance without a plan. I've seen people
> at other railroad museums change headlights
> on diesels (back date) without any immediate
> plan to repaint the unit. Any changes should
> be done a part of a planned and approved
> restoration project. Until at time, the
> artifact needs to be conserved as it came to
> the museum site.

> Just my thoughts

> Brian Norden


Northwest Railway Museum Web Site
rra@trainmuseum.org

> I myself have posted some odd things late at
> night or early in the morning.. but I don't
> think the above is written in the syntax of
> the english language. *baffled*

I believe what Owen said is that a 60v lamp can be used in a 75v system if a suitable resistor is wired in series with the lamp. The resistor is used to limit the current flow through the lamp that would otherwise burn it out. He also makes the point that the resistor can be wired in at the breaker panel, or in the headlight enclosure if space allows.


Washington Steam Railroads and Locomotives
brianfr@speakeasy.org

> Richard,
You should contact some of the smaller locomotive dealers/repair shops like Relco or George Silcott. These shops often part out engines and will have the parts you need for an Alco switcher.A few years ago I needed a reflector for the same type of headlight, and Silcott had it on the shelf.

Good Luck

B. Allan

For pete's sake, they are
> replacing a headlight. By your logic, they
> shouldn't even change the crankcase oil in
> the locomotive because that would be
> altering it.

I am still laughing at this. A very good analogy...crankcase oil...

I will admit to feeling guilty when we put new airhoses on Muncie & Western #8 (a GE 70 ton) that still had a set from the early 1950's on it.

David Farlow

hudson.industries@worldnet.att.net

If you need an electrical maintenance manual for your HH660, let me know off list.
I would be happy to provide a copy of this for a museum.