Hello:
I understand that there was an article in one of the Model RR magazines; perhaps the 1960's where a fellow had a model railroad equipped with real semaphore signals from perhaps the Erie RR. They worked, he had the semaphore mechanisms under the layout. Can anyone tell me what magazine, and what year ?

Kevin Kohls

I vaguely recall seeing photos of outdoor small gauge garden railways that had large, but not full size semaphores. These were in England, where they had a lot of O scale garden railways long before the G scale garden railway era. Many of them were "clockwork" (wind up mechanisms) and others were live steam.

I don't recall ever seeing any indoor layout with full size semaphores. I'm also having a hard time picturing how this would even be possible, given the size of a semaphore blade. Got a basement with 30 foot ceilings?

I do recall some with working, though miniature, semaphores.

Kevin -

I don't know about the model railroad with the full size semaphore signals that you are referencing. But along those same lines, I have a somewhat similar story. Arnt Gerritsen of Valparaiso, Indiana had a set of desk mounted train order board levers from "some Rock Island depot" that had controlled a set of station semaphores. His plan was to use them to control a MODEL train order board at one of the model depots on his then-building Ann Arbor HO gauge themed layout. He finally decided that the idea of using full size levers to control the miniature train order board was a bit of "overkill". He asked if we had a use for the levers. It so happened that we had recently acquired a lower quadrant semphore from the Illinois Central station in Monroe, Wisconsin. So, we accepted his donation and the levers now control the train order board signal at our depot in North Judson. The "fit" between the levers and the order board was pretty good although it could be "tweaked" somewhat to get the lenses lined up with the light a bit better, and someday I hope to get around to doing just that.


Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

I vaguely recall an article in a fifties era MR (I'm bot quite that old, but bought a bunch of back issues while in high school) of a Chicago area layout built by someone who was a honcho on the C&NW. It stated that the C&NW Signal Dept. designed the signal system, and MAY have stated that actual prototype relays were used. Could this be what you are thinking of?

This is a good opportunity to remind everyone of a wonderful resource that Kalmbach Publishing has up on their website as a free service: The Train Magazine Index:

http://trc.trains.com/Train%20Magazine%20Index.aspx

This resource gives you a quick-reference look-up to not only Kalmbach magazines and books, but also many/most of the competing titles, such as Railfan & Railroad, Diesel Era, Railroad Model Craftsman, Prototype Modeler, Traction & Models, Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette, Maine Two-Foot Quarterly, and others.

It's a quite basic search under titles and keywords, not a full text search, but if you know darn well that there was an article on C&NW signals or Lackawanna Poconos or Russell snow plows or drawings of the Chambers RR Covered Bridge in Oregon or the Fisher Bridge in Vermont or an article on the Railway Express Agency's devolution and end (all test entries I just tried, by the way), you *may* be able to find it with this index. (The last test got interesting: "REA" returned 2,014 entries; spelling it out to "Railway Express Agency" brought it down to 13 but still failed to bring up the exact title I sought...)

Going back to the subject of this query, I seem to recall reading/hearing that the original model railroad in the upper floor of the B&O Railroad Museum actually featured at least some relays and circuitry recycled from the B&O's own maintenance of way, but not actual signals. All of this is now gone, along with the railroad, because the rebuild of the Roundhouse forced the powers that be up there to rule the upstairs off limits because it was not ADA-compliant.

I believe the Wabash Frisco & Pacific 12-inch-gage live steam railroad had full size semephores, but mounted on shorter masts than would be used for standard gage.

Guys:
I appreciate all the good responses, but I don't think we have found it yet. At least two people have told me about that article; both are signal fans and they both said it was a personal model rr that had the semaphore mechanisms under the layout ( the mechanisms would be about 2 1/2 feet tall and 2 feet wide each. Of course, they couldn't tell me what magazine or what time frame.

Thanks for the help !

Kevin Kohls

The Purdue club has/ had a full sized operational semaphore for display only.
The old O scale layout in the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago was built by the Santa Fe and used all the prototype relays to run it including signalling, it was an automated layout. No semaphores I don't believe.

You just reminded me I want to find a miniature one for my welcome place for my layout.

quick search on some mag search I didnt see anything pop out, doesnt mean someone didnt do it, I believe it.
I had a working HO semaphore on the club layout years ago, I can see trying to hook the real deal to it...hardehar...oboy...

Beat me to it.

On the old WF&P the siganls were full size and they had one of most every track signal device. See the book; "Little Railways of the World" author; Frederic Shaw

Copies are sometimes resonable on EBAY or Alabris and the used book sellers.

Yes, and as I recall, they used to run on a very formalized dispatching system with train orders, signals, etc.

But I am not sure what the original poster was asking about. I don't quite get the concept of full size signals on a small model railroad like 0-gage or H0. I don't see how you could associate the gigantic signals with stretches of track.

I'll have to look up the exact issue, but I seem to recall the article was in Model Railroader in the 1960s. The subject was how to get an appropriate realistic action in a scale three-position semaphore. The fellow used a full-scale mechanism from a railroad in his area to drive the model semaphore; much of the article would have covered the mechanism to reduce the signal drive's motion down to that of the scale model above it. He said the resulting model action not only moved at an appropriate speed, but even had the subtle "bounce" of the full-scale signal when the blade dropped to the "stop" position.

The device may have worked to his satisfaction, but I recall thinking when I saw it, "What a waste of space! Who else is going to get one of those things to set under your railroad? And what do you do for a whole railroad that might be entirely signaled with semaphores?"

More interesting, and maybe more useful, if not much more, was a series of articles on building a working mechanical interlocking. Went into considerable detail on how to get locks, signals, and switches to working in the interlocking frame, and the logic of how to tie it all together. That starts getting involved as routes and options increase. Still it was interesting, even if it required making a bunch of parts that all had to fit together well. Might try that myself as one of my projects for when I retire, if I get the chance to do that--which just might be sooner than I thought, if some other things work out. . .

This is the way to go for you; http://calslivesteam.org/question.htm

Just double the size to 3.2" to the foot for 15" gauge.

Check out that photo at the Chesapeake & Allegheny Live Steam Club! Ross Rowland is probably drooling at that one; hell, I'm drooling at that one!

I got to speak to someone from that club about this particular locomotive. I joked that his club needed about 50 or 100 scale hoppers to properly load it. He replied that the club once coupled every available car they had behind it, and said it made no difference in speed or performance; the only thing noted was that it got a bit louder on some of the grades they have. . .

Are you sure it was for real? They used to run some pretty convincing April Fools Day gags...

Assuming it was, that's amazing. The wasted space and complexity boggles the mind. As you mention, imagine doing it for the whole railroad. Also, who would appreciate it? I guess he did, and that's what matters.

Model railroading sure was different in those days. Far more scratch building. I recall that each month's issue had a detailed drawing of a car or locomotive in it. (I also took some serious ribbing in Junior High when the guys discovered that my magazine had a "centerfold" of a TRAIN rather than the naked lady they usually found in magazines with centerfolds. Yeah, they had some fun with that...)

J3a-614
What you described sounds very close to the information I had been given about that article. Now, if we can just find that article.

Thanks all !

Kevin K