I have located copies of 3 different books on the Southern Railway, all claiming to have plans and photographs in them. They are: Southern Steam Power, The Southern Railway Handbook, and Southern Railway System: Steam Locomotives and Boats. I am wondering out of the 3, which one is going to have the most detailed plans of the CNO&TP Ms-4s and which one will have the most information and photos of the CNO&TP Ms-4s. I am aware that the book covering boats and locomotives has the plans but I am unaware of how detailed the plans are and as to whether it has a lot of information on the class. thanks for all the help!
-Stuart

Also which of the 3 would have more detailed plans in general and which would be a better read overall.

HI Stuart
I have the Southern Railway system Steam locomoties and Boats , R. E. Prince . In dealing with the information that you are looking for , of Southern Ry Ms-4s, there is a side elevation of the engine, on page 273 showing engine numbers , stokers, used, etc.
On page 106 there is the story about the engine , this is two pages long, and six pages of pictures .Also in the Steam locomotive rosters , the very detailed shows road numbers , const numbers , plus scraping dates .

Over all the book has alot of information about the railroad and boats , for the money I think it is a great book, with alot of information . Pat.

All of the Prince-authored books have reprints of the diagram book for the railroad that is the subject of the book, I believe the Southern book is the same. These are the general outline plans, giving rough, basic dimensions, numbers, etc.

How detailed of plans are you looking for? Have you checked with the Souther Railway Historical Association? You may have to look at an archival and non-book source if you want something with more detail.

Hi David. I have checked with the SRHA but unfortunately they informed me that there are no plans for the CNO&TP Ms-4 in their library. What I have found/acquired is as follows: MR plans from January 1982 (these are the most detailed plans I have so far), Heavy mikado plans from the Wikipedia page, Heavy Mikado Plans from a MR book of plans circa 1940's, and finally an 8x10 photograph of plans for the CNO&TP Ms-4 from the ALCO historical society. I have yet to receive the photograph of the plans From the ALCO group, so I am unaware of how detailed they are.

Thanks for that information Pat! By "the very detailed" do you mean plans or information?

Now if I could just find out what was in the other two books!
Thanks!
-Stuart

Stuart,

Do you belong to a library? See if they can get them via interlibrary loan? It would give you a chance to at least copy or scan what pages you needed.

David

Yes I am a member of a library and I'm curious what library has a copy of either book?
-Stuart

WorldCat is your friend:

http://www.worldcat.org/

There are libraries that have the books available; their availability to InterLibrary Loan may vary. It's occasionally faster to travel to the library in question and simply gain access to the shelves--of course, depending on how close you live to said library, etc. I've photocopied entire out-of-print books at the Library of Congress in D.C. when the need has arisen.

None of those books have what you're looking for. They are however great for reference photos, especially the Prince book and the Steam Power book. The latter being the one you'll pay the most for, The Princes have been going for around $50, I picked up the Handbook for $10 a while back, the other though I've seen going for well over $100.

Your best bet would be the back issues of Ties (the SR Historical Association magazine). They did a multi-part article on the Ms-4s circa 1996ish, which went into depth about the differences in the classes from division to division--keeping in mind that a regardless of what division you were on, the engines would vary slightly depending on where rebuilds were performed. In other words, if you know what you are looking for, you could tell whether repairs were done at Spencer, Knoxville, Atlanta, Chattanooga, etc. or a combination of multiple shops.

Also, check out the 1982(?) issue of Model Railroader, which had scale drawings of the Ms-4. It's not a CNO&TP Ms-4, but should be close enough for what you are looking for.
Kevin Gilliam